View Poll Results: What is more important?

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  • A balanced budget (no growth in debt)

    53 86.89%
  • Tax cuts

    8 13.11%
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Thread: Tax cuts or balance budget

  1. #121
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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    SS has been so efficient it helped fund the US Government.
    Bernie Madoff was pretty "efficient" too.

  2. #122
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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Bernie Madoff was pretty "efficient" too.
    And pumpkins are available in October.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #123
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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You disputed the claim that, "a public program is more efficient by definition." The greater efficiency of the Medicare program provides evidence to back up that claim.

    Medicare vs. Non-Government (Private) Health Insurance - Health Care Reform - ProCon.org
    Not when you look at admin cost per beneficiary, which is the correct way to look at it.

    Medicare - $509
    Private insurers - $453

    That is the same problem we have been dealing with under private insurers, health care costs. That is why we need a single payer system like the rest of the First world nations.

    It has nothing to do with Medicare's lower administrative costs.
    Medicare covers the elderly. The ratio of elderly to workers is increasing. the cost of healthcare is increasing and the number of problems the elderly have is increasing. Medicare costs are increasing faster than private insurer costs.

    This does not mean single payer is the solution.

  4. #124
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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    And pumpkins are available in October.
    His comment was relevant, yours was not.

    Do you not realize that since that the "return rate" on SS is from US treasuries, the interest paid on it is not actually a return, but rather the us taxpayer just paying it off via FIT.
    There is no return rate on SS that isn't paid for by taxpayers, in one form or another.
    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

  5. #125
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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Not when you look at admin cost per beneficiary, which is the correct way to look at it.

    Medicare - $509
    Private insurers - $453
    I provided evidence from 5 different studies of the issue and you provided your opinion. I think I will go with the studies but thanks for your opinion.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #126
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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    His comment was relevant, yours was not.
    What Madoff did was illegal. SS is not.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I provided evidence from 5 different studies of the issue and you provided your opinion. I think I will go with the studies but thanks for your opinion.
    The numbers I quoted are from the study, jackass.

  8. #128
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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    What Madoff did was illegal. SS is not.
    I would argue all taxes not agreed upon by the populace are immoral and shouldn't exist
    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    The numbers I quoted are from the study, jackass.
    I've noticed you always start with the name calling when you have been proven wrong. You should work on that!

    Then you probably also noted from the studies that what i claimed is true.

    The 5 studies total average for Medicare administrative costs is 4.7% and the total average for private health insurance is 14.8%
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #130
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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha View Post
    Only in imaginationland.....
    Everything from the DMV to Public Sector Union Slobs represent the antithesis of efficiency........
    .....and thus delivers a superior product and service. The private sector attains customers via Free Choice and Free Markets......the public sector relies on a monopoly of brute force to get its customers.
    ....thus there is no reason to move any product.....or improve the product.....its why government always delivers a turd sandwhich.
    All of those roads, law enforcement, firefighters, election management, public park systems, and soldiers seem to be working out just fine as public systems. And they keep improving, without the need for profit. There's no need to compete with private versions of these services, because they are too important to leave to selfish interests. You look at the DMV as a failure because you have to wait in line. I see it as an amazing success because of all the myriad services they provide, and the sheer number of people they manage to go through. You'd prefer they hire more people to speed things up so you don't have to wait as long? Guess what, the ratio they have now gets people through as fast as possible, without letting a teller ever go without someone to serve. In short, it is as efficient as possible. The DMV does not care about making you feel better about the business you have to do. It just gets the business done. A private version of the DMV would spend more money to make the waiting room more comfortable, or hire more tellers to get you through faster... which would increase the overhead, and they would raise the cost they charge you. By its very nature of being public and thus not out for profit, the DMV is as cost-effective as possible.


    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    This had me on the floor laughing. Ahh, the innocence.
    The truth is, a private program has competition. In order for a private program to turn a product, they need to deliver quality service at a lower price. This means there is strong, profit-based incentive to reduce costs.
    A public program finds itself in the opposite situation. There is no competition, in a public program. A public program has no incentive to reduce costs and operate efficiently. In fact, a public program has an incentive to acquire more funding and does so be being inefficient and performing poorly to increase staff. It creates work for itself, through increased bureaucracy.
    Except that we have done everything we can to destroy competition. Real competition has very little to do with the quality of a product, but rather with advertising. Why do you think everyone pays through the nose for ad time during the Superbowl? Why do you think ads pop up on every website and during every TV show? In a system with actual competition, the better product would sell, regardless of how it was advertised. The whole principal of competition is based on how well a seller can lie to the consumers. The incentive, as you put it, is not to make a better product. It's to make a cheaper product and to lie about its effectiveness. That's why a bag of chips is puffed up and has so much empty space in it. It's to trick you into thinking there's more chips in there than there really is.

    The competition you speak of doesn't happen between competing brands. In terms of the quality of the product, there is no difference between Coke and Pepsi. Or a Ford or a Chrysler. They're fundamentally the same technology. It's the impression those products give you that informs your choice to buy. The competition that you're talking about is the competition between cars and horses. Major innovations in technology. These happen without the need for profit. Inventors invent even when no one pays them to do it. The competitive innovations are about how to better market a product, not how to improve that product, other than ways to make it more cheaply, like taking all the actual food out of food, or making headphones that don't last as long, or outsourcing jobs to countries where workers can be paid vastly less, or by just firing people.

    Innovation and competition have nothing to do with one another, and profit is not a motivator for innovation.

    As to there being no motivation to lower costs... Taxes are our money. Government works for us (or, it would if we didn't sell it to corporate interests). We are the board of directors and one of our mandates is not to waste money. Of course there is incentive to lower costs. The program only gets exactly as much money as it needs to do the job. There are no bonuses for the folks at the top. The job gets done, and as efficiently as it possibly can be done.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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