View Poll Results: What is more important?

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  • A balanced budget (no growth in debt)

    53 86.89%
  • Tax cuts

    8 13.11%
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Thread: Tax cuts or balance budget

  1. #91
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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    it balances the budget by reducing it to revenues, and requries a supermajority of Congress to override. nothing there about eating children.



    actually if you want to talk about "budget busting tax cuts"; the middle class tax cut is 'costing' the federal government more than tax cuts for the 'wealthy' are. so perhaps you should be irritated at all those greedy middle-income families.

    OR, we can recognize that people are generally rational actors, and that thus the relationship between tax rates and actual revenue is tenuous at best.





    taxes tend to hover around 18% of GDP; only once in the past 50 years has it even gone over 20% (hilariously, while Bush was President). Bush tax cuts of 2003 led to an increase in revenues, and it wasn't until the current Recession that we see a drop to 15%.

    in the 1950's and 1960's, tax rates on high income earners were (comparatively) sky-high; yet they brought in no more revenue as a share of GDP. why?

    because people seek to avoid exposing their income to taxes.

    assuming you aren't in the middle of a market crash who's recovery has been stalled by foolish government intervention (ie: us right now), you are going to get about 18-19% of GDP in tax revenue. if you want to get out of debt, therefore, you have to get federal expenditures UNDER 18% of GDP.

    it's not a revenue problem. it's a spending problem.
    If one zooms in on the relevant range of that chart instead of scaling it from 0-100% to make the changes appear less significant than they are, a quite different picture emerges:



    Tax cuts and tax hikes have indeed had a significant effect on tax revenue. Each 1% change is equivalent to about $150 billion in today's dollars.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 03-29-11 at 01:51 PM.
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  2. #92
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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    If one zooms in on the relevant range of that chart instead of scaling it from 0-100% to make the changes appear less significant than they are, a quite different picture emerges:



    Tax cuts and tax hikes have indeed had a significant effect on tax revenue. Each 1% change is equivalent to about $150 billion in today's dollars.
    How so? The picture is the same regardless of the scaling... changes to marginal tax rates have no reliable effect on federal tax revenue as a percentage of GDP. The variability you see is more tied to periods of economic expansion/boom/recession than anything else.

  3. #93
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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    How so? The picture is the same regardless of the scaling... changes to marginal tax rates have no reliable effect on federal tax revenue as a percentage of GDP. The variability you see is more tied to periods of economic expansion/boom/recession than anything else.
    That doesn't make sense, seeing as we're not dealing with absolute dollar revenue, but as a percentage of the economy.
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  4. #94
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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    now the question becomes, will all of those who have voted in favor of the balanced budget option support Senate Republicans when they put up just such a bill?


    my bet will be that many of them do not.
    So to your mind supporting balancing the budget requires supporting the plan you want passed? That is patently absurd. No only is it possible to support balancing the budget but be opposed to some ideas on how to do it, it is likely.

    Let me ask you this, if you support balancing the budget, do you support my plan to balance it over any other plan?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  5. #95
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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Where were you during the last decade? You do realize that the start of the "out of control spending" was under a Republican congress and White House right?
    we warned you that man couldn't possess the one ring for long. why didn't you listen to us?

  6. #96
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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Good luck getting a straight answer from any conservatives here. I've asked this question before, and most of them resent the whole premise of government paying for the services it provides.
    How are you getting to the balanced budget?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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  7. #97
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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Finally, someone answered the question. Thanks
    glad to help.

  8. #98
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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    if you want to balance the budget raising taxes on the 5% that pay most of the income taxes and all the death taxes won't help because the other 95% will continue to support those politicians who pander to them with more spending.

    if you want to balance the budget you have to make reckless government spending so painful to most voters that they will punish politicians who engage in such activity. that would require making the majority start paying their fair share of what they use



  9. #99
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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    That doesn't make sense, seeing as we're not dealing with absolute dollar revenue, but as a percentage of the economy.
    you've never heard of writing down losses? of increased government transfer payments during a recession? the Feds didn't exactly pay themselves taxes on the stimulus; yet that was real money that was transferred from taxable activities.

    the chart kandahar posted is the exact same as mine with one notable difference: it doesn't compare tax revenues to tax rates. dramatic swings in tax rates have not produced anything similar in tax [i]revenues[/il].

  10. #100
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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    So to your mind supporting balancing the budget requires supporting the plan you want passed? That is patently absurd. No only is it possible to support balancing the budget but be opposed to some ideas on how to do it, it is likely.

    Let me ask you this, if you support balancing the budget, do you support my plan to balance it over any other plan?
    it's not a cutting bill; it's just a balanced budget bill. the "how" is TBD, just the "You Must" is to be set into law.

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