View Poll Results: Should I join the Marine Corps

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  • Yes

    7 50.00%
  • No

    6 42.86%
  • Other (Please explain)

    1 7.14%
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Thread: Moral Dilemma Poll

  1. #1
    A Man Without A Country
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    Moral Dilemma Poll

    Hey everyone! I came here to ask for some moral advice.

    Ever since I was 16 I've wanted to be a US Marine rifleman. However, my critiques of the US government and writing (Yes, I did write that) on war do no go together. I realize the irony and hypocrisy that would occur if I did join up.

    The only good thing that would happen if I did not join up is that I want to get a job at the Department of Defense and rise in standing from there to try and make sure that if the US does go to war, it is to defend the US or its allies, not corporate interests or have wars based on lies and deceit.

    So I wanted to know if any of you had any advice for me as to what I should do, it would be much appreciated.

    Sincerely,

    Mr. Invisible
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

  2. #2
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    Re: Moral Dilemma Poll

    My only advice is to stick to whatever your principles are.

    There are few things that piss me off more than someone who enlists under the guise of "defending our nation" when they're there because it's free education money and an easy paycheck. There are lots of people who look toward military careers but bitch and moan when the rubber hits the road for the position. I have no sympathy for these people; you sign up for a job and you do it. It's not something you can claim ignorance on.

    There's a reason why soldiers are not allowed to question orders. Therefore, whatever you do, you better be damned sure that's what you want - and able to perform all the duties it entails.

  3. #3
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    Re: Moral Dilemma Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Hey everyone! I came here to ask for some moral advice.

    Ever since I was 16 I've wanted to be a US Marine rifleman. However, my critiques of the US government and writing (Yes, I did write that) on war do no go together. I realize the irony and hypocrisy that would occur if I did join up.

    The only good thing that would happen if I did not join up is that I want to get a job at the Department of Defense and rise in standing from there to try and make sure that if the US does go to war, it is to defend the US or its allies, not corporate interests or have wars based on lies and deceit.

    So I wanted to know if any of you had any advice for me as to what I should do, it would be much appreciated.

    Sincerely,

    Mr. Invisible
    Join the Corps. You think all Service Members agrees with the war? If so your wrong, but there here because they have strong sense of duty to Country. If you don't like after four years you can get it but at least you will have the pride that you answered you country's call. ( which most Americans don't). There more the merry.
    Last edited by cpgrad08; 03-24-11 at 02:04 PM.

  4. #4
    Sage

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    Re: Moral Dilemma Poll

    Follow your heart and your head. Only you know what you truly believe at this point in time. If you feel you could be a good soldier, follow orders and obey the oath you take, you should go for your dream.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  5. #5
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    Re: Moral Dilemma Poll

    There is no such thing as a "fight only in the wars you want to fight in" sign on bonus. If you want to join the military and not fight then join a noncombat MOS. Now you still may be put in harms way depending on what kind of support MOS you pick. It would be stupid to join a combat MOS and then later bitch because you have to fight in a war you disagree with.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 03-24-11 at 02:13 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  6. #6
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    Re: Moral Dilemma Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    There is no such thing as a "fight only in the wars you want to fight in" sign on bonus. If you want to join the military and not fight then join a noncombat MOS. Now you still may be put in harms way depending on what kind of support MOS you pick. It would be stupid to join a combat MOS and then later bitch because you have to fight in a war you disagree with.
    True enough. You got to decide Mr. Invisible is what stronger you love to Country and Corps or distaste for the war. There is always going be conflicts and you may not always agree with.

  7. #7
    Dungeon Master
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    Re: Moral Dilemma Poll

    Join the Peace Corps.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mahatma Gandhi


  8. #8
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    Re: Moral Dilemma Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    My only advice is to stick to whatever your principles are.

    There are few things that piss me off more than someone who enlists under the guise of "defending our nation" when they're there because it's free education money and an easy paycheck. There are lots of people who look toward military careers but bitch and moan when the rubber hits the road for the position. I have no sympathy for these people; you sign up for a job and you do it. It's not something you can claim ignorance on.

    There's a reason why soldiers are not allowed to question orders. Therefore, whatever you do, you better be damned sure that's what you want - and able to perform all the duties it entails.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Follow your heart and your head. Only you know what you truly believe at this point in time. If you feel you could be a good soldier, follow orders and obey the oath you take, you should go for your dream.
    Holy crap. I actually agree with both of you on this topic.

  9. #9
    Pragmatic Idealist
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    Re: Moral Dilemma Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Hey everyone! I came here to ask for some moral advice.

    Ever since I was 16 I've wanted to be a US Marine rifleman. However, my critiques of the US government and writing (Yes, I did write that) on war do no go together. I realize the irony and hypocrisy that would occur if I did join up.

    The only good thing that would happen if I did not join up is that I want to get a job at the Department of Defense and rise in standing from there to try and make sure that if the US does go to war, it is to defend the US or its allies, not corporate interests or have wars based on lies and deceit.

    So I wanted to know if any of you had any advice for me as to what I should do, it would be much appreciated.

    Sincerely,

    Mr. Invisible
    I actually had some personal experience with this same issue. After high school, I had an appointment to Air Force Academy. Though I was fundamentally a pacifist* , I also wanted to be a pilot, wanted a great education for free (they pay you) and was caught up during high school in all of the hoopla that goes with such a thing. All of the Air Force officers I met during the admission process consistently spoke of how they hated war, but that sometimes the result of not going to war was worse than the war itself. I agreed with that, I wasn't against war, I was just against American Imperialism when it led to wars....so I thought my thinking was completely aligned. I was wrong. I found a lot more gung-ho war mongering among my fellow cadets than I had expected and just felt I was marching out of step.... which is important, as I spent a lot of time marching. Anyway, I did not stay. I felt the Academy wasn't right for me.

    I was an impressionable high school kid, a bit naive and not sufficiently sure of myself at the time, or I probably could have better reconciled the situation with what I was getting out of it. I would not offer you advice, as I don't know you, but you may find this datapoint helpful.

  10. #10
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    Re: Moral Dilemma Poll

    I've struggled with the same questions. It's not news that troops are often sent to fight in wars that they might be morally opposed to, but you don't have a choice, you signed the mutha****in contract. At the end of the day, you have to realize that you must surrender a part of yourself to be part of an institution like the military. You have to follow orders, no questions asked (the only exception being is if you believe a superior has given an illegal order).

    I DO think that we need more honest and in-depth national discussions about the policy decisions that could potentially lead us to war. Today, ordinary Americans are so disconnected from military life and the policy decisions that affect the lives of our troops have little impact on people's daily lives. I don't remember the numbers, but Afghanistan was on the low end of voters' concerns during the last midterm elections. Having a quality all-volunteer military can be a great tool, but it also is detrimental when the vast majority of Americans are divorced from the realities of war. I once had a Marine recruiter tell me that the military is like the beef in a hamburger. Everyone loves the hamburger, but nobody wants to see how the cow is killed and butchered. I think this relationship between the military and the American people needs to be rectified, or the propensity for Americans to continue not giving a **** when politicians deploy military force cavalierly will only get worse.

    I'm not a Marine yet, but I believe they have a certain saying: "America is not at war. The Marine Corps is at war. America is at the mall." This is something that needs to change.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 03-26-11 at 01:53 AM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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