View Poll Results: Who won the Vietnam War?

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  • The French

    2 1.28%
  • The British

    1 0.64%
  • The Americans

    9 5.77%
  • The Canadians

    2 1.28%
  • The Chinese

    4 2.56%
  • The Russians

    4 2.56%
  • The Japanese

    0 0%
  • The Vietnamese

    71 45.51%
  • No one

    44 28.21%
  • Other

    19 12.18%
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Thread: Who won the Vietnam War?

  1. #81
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I don't entirely agree, but that's another matter. The real question is whether or not stopping Communism in Southeast Asia a worthy goal at all to begin with. I fail to see how Communism in Indochina was a direct threat to the lives or safety of Americans, which in my opinion is the only sound justification for military intervention in another part of the world (unless it's a UN humanitarian peacekeeping mission like the Sudan or Congo).
    You got to remember, It was the common view at the time and even now that communism is basically an evil establishment. The spread of the communist allied force around the world was a direct threat to America and it's freedom. This is a direct Cold War conflict. The same Cold war that initiated the Cuban missile crisis, the korean war, space race, and many others i don't feel like listing them all. Making this reasoning invalid makes all of these moments in history invalid. The fight between communism and america is still going on today. How do you not see how the threat of communism permiated the american culture in all aspects. This is something we are getting less and less passionate about...

  2. #82
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Perhaps your father could contact fellow Vietnam veteran, Jerry Lembcke, who wrote a book about how no returning Vietnam vet was ever found to have been spat upon?

    I could of sworn i have even seen some videos on this in school, but i could be mistaken, but yes i know from a primary source that it did happen. I have no idea to what degree though, i don't think it was a whole mob doing it, all it would take is like two people for soldiers to see it and not like it.

    Why do you think this is not likely at all lol? people are even doing this to Irag war veteran's
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_-TBirrPiQ

    What got my dad the most was being called a baby killer and stuff
    Last edited by celticwar17; 03-22-11 at 07:57 PM.

  3. #83
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    It was the common view at the time and even now that communism is basically an evil establishment.
    I'm a history major and yes I realize this. However I believe the fear was entirely overblown.

    The spread of the communist allied force around the world was a direct threat to America and it's freedom. This is a direct Cold War conflict. The same Cold war that initiated the Cuban missile crisis, the korean war, space race, and many others i don't feel like listing them all.
    The Cold War is hardly something I would call a "direct" conflict. For the most part, it was about two superpowers that would have been going at it regardless of ideology. Apart from the air raid drills and all that, in realistic terms the Cold War had little effect on the lives of ordinary Americans except when we chose to make it a problem, and in the lone case of the Cuban Missile Crisis.

    The fight between communism and america is still going on today.
    Really? Where? The West has won. History has proved Communism to be a failure at the state level and ineffective at the economic level. Communism defeated itself because it wasn't feasible.

    How do you not see how the threat of communism permiated the american culture in all aspects.
    If you could list some concrete examples I would like to hear how Communism permeated American culture. We certainly don't go running around singing L'Internationale or calling each other "comrade."

    This is something we are getting less and less passionate about...
    Because it is becoming more and more irrelevant. Stalinism is dead.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 03-22-11 at 08:08 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  4. #84
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrickt View Post
    I would vote that the socialists in the U.S. won.
    Right, we allowed Vietnam to fall to communism which created a domino effect and everyone is a communist today. Oh, wait, none of that proganda turned out to be true did it? They have been a tradeing partner of ours since the early 90's.

    If we had ended the war years before we did, the only change in outcome would have been tens of thousands less people would have been killed and our National debt would not have increased as much.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amazed View Post

    Feel free to condemn JFK at any time then.
    Why? JFK did exactly what Eisenhower did. Just like Eisenhower escalated policies he inherited from Truman, JFK escalated policies he inherited from Eisenhower. The one I blame the most is Johnson. He's the idiot who turned our support for a puppet government into a full-blown war.

  6. #86
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Why? JFK did exactly what Eisenhower did. Just like Eisenhower escalated policies he inherited from Truman, JFK escalated policies he inherited from Eisenhower. The one I blame the most is Johnson. He's the idiot who turned our support for a puppet government into a full-blown war.
    What's sad is that Johnson was fighting a war he himself hated, similar to Obama's position in Afghanistan today.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  7. #87
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    Correct that was our objective. But the whole reason for entering into the Vietnam war was to stop it. If we completely beat the northern Vietnamese, communism would have been eliminated in this "whole" region of indochina ( which only comprises of Vietnam and Laos)( Cambodia was a constitutional monarchy). If Vietnam went down the threat would have been eliminated. That's why we entered in the first place.
    And how do you define " if Vietnam went down"? Destroy the North's government and unify Vietnam with the South in power? Or drive the North back to the agreed upon line? Either option would require years of commitment and permanent presence to either squash insurgents or intimidate the North from any further attempt. Unless you drop an atomic bomb on the North (or enough bombs to have the same effect) - that should do it.

    In Cambodia, the seed of unrest was already happening. Sikhanouk was a socialist with very close ties to China. America already distrusted him and once Lon Nol came to power, civil war was inevitable. Would that war have ended with victory for the Lon Nol government if the American was in charge of Vietnam? Maybe, if Sikhanouk was killed or in some way reconciled to the government.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

  8. #88
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amazed View Post

    Yes of course, your source can speak for EVERY other Vet, how absurd.
    Well the author searched for evidence and found none, even after his book was published, no veteran came forward with personal experience of being spat upon. It appears it's nothing but urban legand.

  9. #89
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    And how do you define " if Vietnam went down"? Destroy the North's government and unify Vietnam with the South in power? Or drive the North back to the agreed upon line? Either option would require years of commitment and permanent presence to either squash insurgents or intimidate the North from any further attempt. Unless you drop an atomic bomb on the North (or enough bombs to have the same effect) - that should do it.

    In Cambodia, the seed of unrest was already happening. Sikhanouk was a socialist with very close ties to China. America already distrusted him and once Lon Nol came to power, civil war was inevitable. Would that war have ended with victory for the Lon Nol government if the American was in charge of Vietnam? Maybe, if Sikhanouk was killed or in some way reconciled to the government.
    "Destroy the North's government and unify Vietnam with the South in power? Or drive the North back to the agreed upon line?"

    Either one could have been done in under seven years. The only reason the war drew out for that long was because of the war policies. WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM WITH THE WAR IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN.

    They would have surrendered if America allowed itself to actually fight the war.

  10. #90
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Sorry....do some research.

    John Fitzgerald Kennedy was a fervent believer in containing communism. In his first speech on becoming president, Kennedy made it clear that he would continue the policy of the former President, Dwight Eisenhower, and support the government of Diem in South Vietnam. Kennedy also made it plain that he supported the ‘Domino Theory’ and he was convinced that if South Vietnam fell to communism, then other states in the region would as a consequence. This Kennedy was not prepared to contemplate.



    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Why? JFK did exactly what Eisenhower did. Just like Eisenhower escalated policies he inherited from Truman, JFK escalated policies he inherited from Eisenhower. The one I blame the most is Johnson. He's the idiot who turned our support for a puppet government into a full-blown war.
    Obama is NOT 50 feet tall, he is ONE inch deep.
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