View Poll Results: Who won the Vietnam War?

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  • The French

    2 1.28%
  • The British

    1 0.64%
  • The Americans

    9 5.77%
  • The Canadians

    2 1.28%
  • The Chinese

    4 2.56%
  • The Russians

    4 2.56%
  • The Japanese

    0 0%
  • The Vietnamese

    71 45.51%
  • No one

    44 28.21%
  • Other

    19 12.18%
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Thread: Who won the Vietnam War?

  1. #61
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Instead of giving me one-liners how bout you actually tell me how winning in Vietnam would have done anything for America and Americans.
    The question is: What is winning for America? What was the American objective? To stop Indochina from falling into Communism would require a long term commitment with bases in the area like Korea. So to claim that 7 years was long and resulted in more life lost than necessary appears bogus. To achieve that objective requires a permanent commitment much longer than 7 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

  2. #62
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Except North Vietnam achieved their goal of a unified nation. I'd say they won.
    The Vietnamese PEOPLE certainly would have been screwed either way. I pretty much agree with Boo.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  3. #63
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    The question is: What is winning for America? What was the American objective? To stop Indochina from falling into Communism would require a long term commitment with bases in the area like Korea. So to claim that 7 years was long and resulted in more life lost than necessary appears bogus. To achieve that objective requires a permanent commitment much longer than 7 years.
    All that is true, in addition to assuming that stopping Indochina from falling to Communism was a worthy cause for Americans to lay their lives on the line.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  4. #64
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    They were supplying weapons to the Khmer Rouge long before the Viets invaded Cambodia.
    And they continued to do that when the Vietnamese invaded Cambodia. While the USSR supported the Vietnamese. Shows you that the relationship between Vietnam and China is not as close as you implied. China was very much afraid of Vietnam competing with it for power in the region, not to mention their squabble about land that continues to this day.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

  5. #65
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Thats true but they were forced to pick a side when Indochina started to turn on itself and our "Domino theory" proved to be inaccruate, I've already explained that Vietnam was closer to Russia since it distrusted China's intentions in the region.
    True dat, so now we're comparing apples to oranges. Yes?

  6. #66
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    It can, it just doesn't always work. Sure as hell worked during the Revolutionary War.
    The Colonial Army fought a defensive strategy? Never knew that. Got anything to back it up?

  7. #67
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post

    Liberals/Media war policies and rules lost us the war and dragged it out for 7 years killing more American lives, pure and simple.
    How about that it was a bull**** war started over bull**** reasons that should never have been started? You don't think maybe that had something to do with why there was so much anti-war sentiment and such little support in the media?

  8. #68
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Colonial Army fought a defensive strategy? Never knew that. Got anything to back it up?
    The very nature of the Revolutionary War was defensive. We were on our home turf fighting off a British colonial occupation and invading forces. That in and of itself is defensive strategy, regardless of what kind of tactics we used.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  9. #69
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    The question is: What is winning for America? What was the American objective? To stop Indochina from falling into Communism would require a long term commitment with bases in the area like Korea. So to claim that 7 years was long and resulted in more life lost than necessary appears bogus. To achieve that objective requires a permanent commitment much longer than 7 years.
    Correct that was our objective. But the whole reason for entering into the Vietnam war was to stop it. If we completely beat the northern Vietnamese, communism would have been eliminated in this "whole" region of indochina ( which only comprises of Vietnam and Laos)( Cambodia was a constitutional monarchy). If Vietnam went down the threat would have been eliminated. That's why we entered in the first place.

  10. #70
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Feel free to condemn JFK at any time then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    How about that it was a bull**** war started over bull**** reasons that should never have been started? You don't think maybe that had something to do with why there was so much anti-war sentiment and such little support in the media?
    Obama is NOT 50 feet tall, he is ONE inch deep.
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