View Poll Results: Who won the Vietnam War?

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  • The French

    2 1.28%
  • The British

    1 0.64%
  • The Americans

    9 5.77%
  • The Canadians

    2 1.28%
  • The Chinese

    4 2.56%
  • The Russians

    4 2.56%
  • The Japanese

    0 0%
  • The Vietnamese

    71 45.51%
  • No one

    44 28.21%
  • Other

    19 12.18%
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Thread: Who won the Vietnam War?

  1. #271
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yukon View Post
    Surely you jest....58000 Americans were slaughtered for no apparent reason and you have the gall to claim it wasnt a war? You are very naive.
    It was never declared, and so wasn't a war. Back in the '60s, the government didn't call it a war, but a "military action." It was an end run around the Constitution, which gives the power to declare war to Congress and not to the president.
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  2. #272
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    It was never declared, and so wasn't a war. Back in the '60s, the government didn't call it a war, but a "military action." It was an end run around the Constitution, which gives the power to declare war to Congress and not to the president.
    In reality it was a war. Doesn't matter that Congress decided not to officially declare it a war. In realistic terms, for all intents and purposes, it was a war. "military action" or "police action" are just PC bull**** terms.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 04-02-11 at 05:59 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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  3. #273
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    I won the war, Because I just missed the draft and now I can go there, sit on the beach and for a couple of bucks they will bring me Gin and Tonic. I win.

  4. #274
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    In reality it was a war. Doesn't matter that Congress decided not to officially declare it a war. In realistic terms, for all intents and purposes, it was a war. "military action" or "police action" are just PC bull**** terms.
    Agreed, and yet it was not considered proper or patriotic to refer to it as a "war" back when it was going on. It was not officially a war at the time.

    End runs around the Constitution often involve "PC bull**** terms." there are lots of examples of calling something by a new name in order to get around a law.

    Why were the captives in the war in Iraq referred to as "enemy combatants" instead of "prisoners of war" if it was a war?
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  5. #275
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Agreed, and yet it was not considered proper or patriotic to refer to it as a "war" back when it was going on. It was not officially a war at the time.

    End runs around the Constitution often involve "PC bull**** terms." there are lots of examples of calling something by a new name in order to get around a law.

    Why were the captives in the war in Iraq referred to as "enemy combatants" instead of "prisoners of war" if it was a war?
    I agree. Same reason. Just because the war is fought against an unconventional enemy, Presidential administrations think they have the right to bend the rules a little bit.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  6. #276
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I agree. Same reason. Just because the war is fought against an unconventional enemy, Presidential administrations think they have the right to bend the rules a little bit.
    Exactly. Call it by a new name, and you can bend the rules. People sometimes see through this strategy, sometimes not.

    A rose by any other name is still a rose, and a turd by another name still isn't a rose, but some people will believe that it is.
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  7. #277
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    The question is who lost the War, and the answer is The Media starting with Walter Cronkite and of course the Politicians that would not let the Military win it.

    Cronkite at the time the most trusted man in America reported the war was lost in 1068 and the political support went to hell after that. Thing was Walter based his report on the Tet Offensive that was surprise attacks all over South Vietnam. Thing is we beat back the Offensive and never lost a major Battle.
    There was never anything for us to win. Not territory, not natural resources. It was a civil war to unify the nation. We could have killed them all and we would have still won nothing.
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  8. #278
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    I was drafted in 1968. I dropped a 5 semester hour calculus class which resulted in 11 hours total. I received a letter to report 4 days later. USAF 68 72.

    The US screwed up at the end of the Pacific war with Japan. Actually a bit before when Ho Chi Minh was essentially asking the US to be an ally of Vietnam under his leadership. However, our state department had no effective experts on SE Asia and did not understand how a relationship with a communist could be beneficial. Instead we essentially supported the French who had subjugated the Vietnamese since the 1800s. From WIKI: On 2 September 1945, Ho Chi Minh, the leader of the Viet Minh, declared the independent Democratic Republic of Vietnam before a crowd of 500,000 in Hanoi. In an overture to the Americans, he began his speech by paraphrasing the United States Declaration of Independence: All men are created equal. The Creator has given us certain inviolable Rights: the right to Life, the right to be Free, and the right to achieve Happiness,

    We could have freed the Vietnamese from the French, Japanese, oppressors and civil war in the 40s and history would be very different. It is interesting how your POV can change if you look at what led up to the bit of history you are interested in. Compared to what we could have won for very little investment of lives and money in the 40s we lost big starting in the 60s. And we still dont treat our vets well.

    btw How many MIAs total were there during the US involvement in Vietnam?

  9. #279
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Hardly. They had their fair share of support, no doubt, but did they really have a choice? Communism talks a good game, plus the Communist Party was an organizing principle that the south lacked sufficiently in opposition, but when it was over in '75, communists reverted to their true colors and purged ideological dissent. That is the only way a "communist" movement can survive post conflict: it becomes a autocracy. The people of Vietnam suffered decades of maltreatment.
    Sorry for being so late in quoting you, but during exactly what decades were the people of Vietnam suffering maltreatment? Which decades were the worst? Note, the French were international experts.

  10. #280
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Tell that to all of the poor people who decided to flee on boats...
    It wasnt the poor people that decided to flee on boats. The people that fled on boats generally had high class, high paying jobs in or closely related to the corrupt government of the South. Im not saying that they were bad people, and most were in trouble for being on the losing side so they had reason to flee.

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