View Poll Results: Who won the Vietnam War?

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  • The French

    2 1.28%
  • The British

    1 0.64%
  • The Americans

    9 5.77%
  • The Canadians

    2 1.28%
  • The Chinese

    4 2.56%
  • The Russians

    4 2.56%
  • The Japanese

    0 0%
  • The Vietnamese

    71 45.51%
  • No one

    44 28.21%
  • Other

    19 12.18%
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Thread: Who won the Vietnam War?

  1. #231
    Educator a777pilot's Avatar
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    That's precisely it. You don't win WARS from a tactical point of view. You win BATTLES. Wars are won on the strategic level. Wars are won when political objectives are achieved. If you can win every battle, but you don't achieve your political objectives, then winning battles is useless.

    Winning battles doesn't mean you win the war. Victory in war is not determined by a tally of who won more battles.
    That's exactly right.

    The Vietnam "war" was but a battle in the war against Communism. The United States won the Vietnam war when the North Vietnamese sued for peace during the Christmas Bombing (Linebacker II). The United States won the strategic war against Communism when the Soviet Union fell apart.

    Bottom line: We won.
    I came into this world fighting, screaming and covered in someone else's blood. I have no problem going out the same way.

  2. #232
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by a777pilot View Post
    That's exactly right.

    The Vietnam "war" was but a battle in the war against Communism. The United States won the Vietnam war when the North Vietnamese sued for peace during the Christmas Bombing (Linebacker II). The United States won the strategic war against Communism when the Soviet Union fell apart.

    Bottom line: We won.
    The Cold War, sure.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  3. #233
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by a777pilot View Post
    That's exactly right.

    The Vietnam "war" was but a battle in the war against Communism. The United States won the Vietnam war when the North Vietnamese sued for peace during the Christmas Bombing (Linebacker II). The United States won the strategic war against Communism when the Soviet Union fell apart.

    Bottom line: We won.
    Thats a viewpoint Ive never put together. Sounds about right to me, lets not forget the end result Reagan breaking down the berlin wall.

  4. #234
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Thats a viewpoint Ive never put together. Sounds about right to me, lets not forget the end result Reagan breaking down the berlin wall.
    It was Germans who broke down the Wall. I have tremendous respect for Reagan, but let's get real here...
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  5. #235
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    It was Germans who broke down the Wall. I have tremendous respect for Reagan, but let's get real here...
    So you dont think reagan had anything to do with the wall coming down ?

  6. #236
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    It was Germans who broke down the Wall. I have tremendous respect for Reagan, but let's get real here...
    You think Regan's Speech didn't help encourage them. Regan's spending which force the USSR to try and match us dollar for dollar weaken them and weaken there hold on Germany and the Warsaw pact countries. One of many reasons the why the soviets didn't retaliate against the east Germans like they did to the Hungarians during there rebellion. Regan had a lot to do with that Wall coming down.

  7. #237
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    So you dont think reagan had anything to do with the wall coming down?
    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    You think Regan's Speech didn't help encourage them. Regan's spending which force the USSR to try and match us dollar for dollar weaken them and weaken there hold on Germany and the Warsaw pact countries. One of many reasons the why the soviets didn't retaliate against the east Germans like they did to the Hungarians during there rebellion. Regan had a lot to do with that Wall coming down.
    Yes, I believe Reagan had SOMETHING to do with the wall coming down. Did HE tear it down? No. Was he even the main reason the wall came down? Not remotely. The wall came down due to a chain of events, a series of missteps taken by the East German leadership. Saying "Reagan tore the wall down" is giving him entirely too much credit while diminishing the role of others.

    Berlin Wall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Günter Schabowski, a spokesperson for the politburo, had the task of announcing this; however he had not been involved in the discussions about the new regulations and had not been fully updated.[65] Shortly before a press conference on 9 November, he was handed a note that said that East Berliners would be allowed to cross the border with proper permission but given no further instructions on how to handle the information. These regulations had only been completed a few hours earlier and were to take effect the following day, so as to allow time to inform the border guards — however, nobody had informed Schabowski. He read the note out loud at the end of the conference. When the Italian journalist Riccardo Ehrman, the Berlin correspondent of ANSA newsagency, asked when the regulations would come into effect, Schabowski assumed it would be the same day based on the wording of the note and replied "As far as I know effective immediately, without delay". After further questions from journalists he confirmed that the regulations included the border crossings towards West Berlin, which he had not mentioned until then.[66]

    Walking through Checkpoint Charlie, 10 November 1989Soon afterwards, a West German television channel, ARD, broadcast incomplete information from Schabowski's press conference. A moderator stated: "This ninth of November is a historic day." "East Germany has announced that, starting immediately, its borders are open to everyone."[65]

    After hearing the broadcast, East Germans began gathering at the wall, demanding that border guards immediately open its gates.[65] The surprised and overwhelmed guards made many hectic telephone calls to their superiors about the problem, but it became clear that no one among the East German authorities would take personal responsibility for issuing orders to use lethal force, so the vastly outnumbered soldiers had no way to hold back the huge crowd of East German citizens. In face of the growing crowd, the guards finally yielded, opening the checkpoints and allowing people through with little or no identity checking. Ecstatic East Berliners were soon greeted by West Berliners on the other side in a celebratory atmosphere.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 03-31-11 at 12:23 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  8. #238
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Yes, I believe Reagan had SOMETHING to do with the wall coming down. Did HE tear it down? No. Was he even the main reason the wall came down? Not remotely. The wall came down due to a chain of events, a series of missteps taken by the East German leadership. Saying "Reagan tore the wall down" is giving him entirely too much credit while diminishing the role of others.

    Berlin Wall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Just like anything else Politics there are conflicting views on this. Some say reagan and his polices were instrumental and some wont admit it

  9. #239
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Just like anything else Politics there are conflicting views on this. Some say reagan and his polices were instrumental and some wont admit it
    I believe that some of Reagan's policies were instrumental in ending the Cold War. I also believe that Americans generally don't give enough credit to Gorbachev for his role.

    With respect to just the Berlin Wall, a good speech might have some effect on people, but it was ultimately not the main reason the Wall came down.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  10. #240
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by a777pilot View Post
    That's exactly right.

    The Vietnam "war" was but a battle in the war against Communism. The United States won the Vietnam war when the North Vietnamese sued for peace during the Christmas Bombing (Linebacker II). The United States won the strategic war against Communism when the Soviet Union fell apart.

    Bottom line: We won.
    [emphasis by bubba]

    that post tells me how long you have been drinking the kool aid

    there is no way in hell that we won that war ... the first of a string of military engagements in which we should never have been present in the first place
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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    Even his own advisers and confidantes think Trump's campaign committed treason.
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    He's a genius relative to his voters.

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