View Poll Results: Who won the Vietnam War?

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  • The French

    2 1.28%
  • The British

    1 0.64%
  • The Americans

    9 5.77%
  • The Canadians

    2 1.28%
  • The Chinese

    4 2.56%
  • The Russians

    4 2.56%
  • The Japanese

    0 0%
  • The Vietnamese

    71 45.51%
  • No one

    44 28.21%
  • Other

    19 12.18%
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Thread: Who won the Vietnam War?

  1. #221
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    The question was "who won the Vietnam War," not "who won the Vietnam Series-of-Battles." You can win every battle and still lose the war, in which case winning battles is irrelevant.
    And, what is a war?

    What part of, "from a tactical point of view", don't you get?

  2. #222
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by March View Post
    This statement right there represents the entire reason we lost Vietnam in the first place. A failed philosophy of war. Communism doesn't work because it doesn't take into account human nature. I'd say thats a pretty big design flaw.

    Likewise, any war strategy that doesn't take into account domestic politics is an inherently flawed idea. A monumental failure at that. We've won pretty much every single battle here in Afghanistan too, but we're probably gonna lose this war as well. Why? Because of a catastrophic failure in logic that people like yourself often engage in.



    Because winning a war means winning every single battle, like we did in the American Revolution! And the Civil War! Oh wait....

    Like I said, that statement right there is a spectacular example of why we keep getting involved with these losing wars.
    We lost all the battled during those wars? oh, wait...

    The North Vietnamese, on the other hand lost every decisive action that we engaged them in. All the way from The Ia Drang Valley to the Easter Offensive.

  3. #223
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    And, what is a war?

    What part of, "from a tactical point of view", don't you get?
    Like I said, any strategy that doesn't account for domestic politics is ultimately a failed strategy.

    Communism is a great theory too, except it doesn't account for human nature. That's a pretty big design flaw, wouldn't you agree? Likewise, any strategy that doesn't account for domestic politics has an inherent design flaw.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst
    We lost all the battled during those wars? oh, wait...
    How on Earth could you derive that from what I said? My point was that winning and losing battles is irrelevent when you have an inherent design flaw in your overall strategy. You're still stuck on trying to "prove" that we won more battles. Amazing!

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst
    The North Vietnamese, on the other hand lost every decisive action that we engaged them in. All the way from The Ia Drang Valley to the Easter Offensive.
    And they still won the war! What does that tell you?

  4. #224
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    We lost all the battled during those wars? oh, wait...

    The North Vietnamese, on the other hand lost every decisive action that we engaged them in. All the way from The Ia Drang Valley to the Easter Offensive.
    Ya and then you gave up and left. Hence they won the war by default.
    PeteEU

  5. #225
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Vote: Other.

    Those who made the most money.

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  6. #226
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by March View Post
    It was a war and the Vietnamese totally won it.

    Nobody could logically disagree with this statement: "The government of Vietnam won the war against the United States government."
    If they did win...you can thank the gutless democrats who started the nam war then didnt have the balls to allow us to win it...and let us die by the thousands why they pulled each others fingers....Nixon was elected and ended the nam war in 3 days by sending B52s to bomb hanoi...Lyndon Baines Johnson scum couldve done that years earlier and saved many american and vietnamese lives

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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    If they did win...you can thank the gutless democrats who started the nam war then didnt have the balls to allow us to win it...and let us die by the thousands why they pulled each others fingers....Nixon was elected and ended the nam war in 3 days by sending B52s to bomb hanoi...Lyndon Baines Johnson scum couldve done that years earlier and saved many american and vietnamese lives
    We dropped more bombs on Vietnam than all of World War 2, so clearly that was also an ineffective strategy as well. I'm not sure that "winning" Vietnam was ever possible to begin with. At what point would you lay down your arms if a foreign country invaded the United States? Once they took D.C.? Would if they bomb the **** out of your cities, would that stop to you, or would you take to the countryside?

    Think about this: Who has a greater interest in the conflict, the United States or the people who live there? Who has a greater will to win, a desire to fight to the death, no matter the costs financially or in lives? I know I'm not willing to bankrupt this country for Vietnam, nor am I willing to sacrifice Americans. I would gladly bankrupt this country for America though. What about you? Would you fight for Vietnam as selflessly as you would for America?

    An inherent design flaw in every pro-war hawk always seems to be the inability to comprehend human nature or sociology. They don't seem to understand that wars are not won simply with guns. Insurgencies have the potential to last forever, until the end of occupation. In the end, they always fail to acknowledge the level of sacrifice necessary for victory. Would you sacrifice your sons? Daughters? Grandparents? Your life savings? Your house? Because the insurgents will. This is their home, they are literally fighting for their homes. What are you fighting for, your government?

  8. #228
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by March View Post
    We dropped more bombs on Vietnam than all of World War 2, so clearly that was also an ineffective strategy as well. I'm not sure that "winning" Vietnam was ever possible to begin with. At what point would you lay down your arms if a foreign country invaded the United States? Once they took D.C.? Would if they bomb the **** out of your cities, would that stop to you, or would you take to the countryside?

    Think about this: Who has a greater interest in the conflict, the United States or the people who live there? Who has a greater will to win, a desire to fight to the death, no matter the costs financially or in lives? I know I'm not willing to bankrupt this country for Vietnam, nor am I willing to sacrifice Americans. I would gladly bankrupt this country for America though. What about you? Would you fight for Vietnam as selflessly as you would for America?

    An inherent design flaw in every pro-war hawk always seems to be the inability to comprehend human nature or sociology. They don't seem to understand that wars are not won simply with guns. Insurgencies have the potential to last forever, until the end of occupation. In the end, they always fail to acknowledge the level of sacrifice necessary for victory. Would you sacrifice your sons? Daughters? Grandparents? Your life savings? Your house? Because the insurgents will. This is their home, they are literally fighting for their homes. What are you fighting for, your government?
    And the Vietnamese have a LONG history of insurgencies against China in their history to draw inspiration from...
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  9. #229
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by March View Post
    We dropped more bombs on Vietnam than all of World War 2, so clearly that was also an ineffective strategy as well. I'm not sure that "winning" Vietnam was ever possible to begin with. At what point would you lay down your arms if a foreign country invaded the United States? Once they took D.C.? Would if they bomb the **** out of your cities, would that stop to you, or would you take to the countryside?

    Think about this: Who has a greater interest in the conflict, the United States or the people who live there? Who has a greater will to win, a desire to fight to the death, no matter the costs financially or in lives? I know I'm not willing to bankrupt this country for Vietnam, nor am I willing to sacrifice Americans. I would gladly bankrupt this country for America though. What about you? Would you fight for Vietnam as selflessly as you would for America?

    An inherent design flaw in every pro-war hawk always seems to be the inability to comprehend human nature or sociology. They don't seem to understand that wars are not won simply with guns. Insurgencies have the potential to last forever, until the end of occupation. In the end, they always fail to acknowledge the level of sacrifice necessary for victory. Would you sacrifice your sons? Daughters? Grandparents? Your life savings? Your house? Because the insurgents will. This is their home, they are literally fighting for their homes. What are you fighting for, your government?
    March your not even on the same page as me. Bombing Hanoi the enemy base stopped the vietnam war in 3 days

    December 26, 1972 - North Vietnam agrees to resume peace negotiations within five days of the end of bombing.

    The History Place - Vietnam War 1969-1975

  10. #230
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    And, what is a war?

    What part of, "from a tactical point of view", don't you get?
    That's precisely it. You don't win WARS from a tactical point of view. You win BATTLES. Wars are won on the strategic level. Wars are won when political objectives are achieved. If you can win every battle, but you don't achieve your political objectives, then winning battles is useless.

    Winning battles doesn't mean you win the war. Victory in war is not determined by a tally of who won more battles. It is determined by who achieved their strategic/political objectives. We sure as hell did not achieve our political objectives in Vietnam. The North Vietnamese did.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 03-31-11 at 12:03 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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