View Poll Results: Who won the Vietnam War?

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  • The French

    2 1.28%
  • The British

    1 0.64%
  • The Americans

    9 5.77%
  • The Canadians

    2 1.28%
  • The Chinese

    4 2.56%
  • The Russians

    4 2.56%
  • The Japanese

    0 0%
  • The Vietnamese

    71 45.51%
  • No one

    44 28.21%
  • Other

    19 12.18%
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Thread: Who won the Vietnam War?

  1. #211
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's right, they won every battle. Oh, wait...
    The question was "who won the Vietnam War," not "who won the Vietnam Series-of-Battles." You can win every battle and still lose the war, in which case winning battles is irrelevant.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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  2. #212
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    This statement right there represents the entire reason we lost Vietnam in the first place. A failed philosophy of war. Communism doesn't work because it doesn't take into account human nature. I'd say thats a pretty big design flaw.

    Likewise, any war strategy that doesn't take into account domestic politics is an inherently flawed idea. A monumental failure at that. We've won pretty much every single battle here in Afghanistan too, but we're probably gonna lose this war as well. Why? Because of a catastrophic failure in logic that people like yourself often engage in.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's right, they won every battle. Oh, wait...
    Because winning a war means winning every single battle, like we did in the American Revolution! And the Civil War! Oh wait....

    Like I said, that statement right there is a spectacular example of why we keep getting involved with these losing wars.

  3. #213
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by March View Post
    This statement right there represents the entire reason we lost Vietnam in the first place. A failed philosophy of war. Communism doesn't work because it doesn't take into account human nature. I'd say thats a pretty big design flaw.

    Likewise, any war strategy that doesn't take into account domestic politics is an inherently flawed idea. A monumental failure at that. We've won pretty much every single battle here in Afghanistan too, but we're probably gonna lose this war as well. Why? Because of a catastrophic failure in logic that people like yourself often engage in.



    Because winning a war means winning every single battle, like we did in the American Revolution! And the Civil War! Oh wait....

    Like I said, that statement right there is a spectacular example of why we keep getting involved with these losing wars.
    I completely agree...it's ridiculous how many people fail to see this. And it is a principle that holds much more relevance in a democracy.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  4. #214
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    “War does not determine who is right - only who is left.”

  5. #215
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    * The Chinese
    they were the wellspring of supplies during the war. vietnam - south as well as north - was in its orbit after the war, making the chinese the ulitmate winner. thru their support, the chinese sent the non Communist world power home in shame. winning!
    * The Russians
    the war fractured its relationship with china, so no, russia lost this one, too
    1. Viet Nam was NOT in China's orbit following the war, it was in the SOVIET orbit after the war.
    2. The relationship between the Soviet Union and China was already fracturing of other causes. Mao never trusted the Soviets and Moscow never trusted Mao. That far preceeded anything that happened in Viet Nam.
    3. China actually invaded Viet Nam in 1979 because Viet Nam invaded a state that DID fall into Beijing's orbit in the 1970s, that being Kampuchea (formerly and once again known as Cambodia)...
    Last edited by ludahai; 03-30-11 at 08:50 AM.
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  6. #216
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by March View Post
    Vietnam won of course. To say anything different would be lying to yourself. What some people don't want to admit is that the world, the United States, and Vietnam probably would have been much better off we never got involved in the first place.

    Just as communisms failure to account for human nature represents an inherent design flaw in the system, so too does any military strategy that fails to account for the effects of domestic politics. We lost Vietnam, yep, say it yourselves. "We lost a war." You can debate the causes all you want, but you can't change the facts.
    No, but you can always ignore the facts in order to keep from changing your opinion. People do it all the time.
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  7. #217
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    The smart people were the Americans who dodged the draft, even that cowardly piece of camel excrement G. Bush Junior. Over 58000 young men were sacrificed to the alter of corporate greed. May the leaders of thsoe corporations, those disgusting bastards, rot and burn in the everlasting fires of hell and may those who died be forgiven for their stupidity.

  8. #218
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    one huge nation under one government, with the marshaling of national assets to create an infrastructure capable of competing internationally

    without communism china would still be mired in third world status

    this is an inconvenient truth that many will want to deny
    Ayn Rand is so rolling in her grave on that remark....

  9. #219
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yukon View Post
    The smart people were the Americans who dodged the draft, even that cowardly piece of camel excrement G. Bush Junior. Over 58000 young men were sacrificed to the alter of corporate greed. May the leaders of thsoe corporations, those disgusting bastards, rot and burn in the everlasting fires of hell and may those who died be forgiven for their stupidity.
    First of all, G.W. was not a "junior". Get your facts straight.

    Second of all, do you know that the Vietnamese people today generally LIKE the United States? They generally do NOT like France, Japan or especially China, but the LIKE the United States. Of course facts like that really are something you and your ilk can't deal with, huh???
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  10. #220
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    First of all, G.W. was not a "junior". Get your facts straight.

    Second of all, do you know that the Vietnamese people today generally LIKE the United States? They generally do NOT like France, Japan or especially China, but the LIKE the United States. Of course facts like that really are something you and your ilk can't deal with, huh???
    everyone LIKES the united states around the world dude, no one is refuting that.
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