I voted ‘other.’
What does ‘The French’ or ‘The Americans’ or ‘The Vietnamese’ mean?
Do you mean the French people, or the American government or the Vietnamese elite?
Who won what in relation to goals made public, to goals only people in government knew of, to goals that were secret to only to be known at a later time, etc.
The Vietnam War is a huge subject and I am unsure if we can break it down piece by piece in this thread.
I mean, do we talk about the aspects of non-interventionism or do we talk about the Gulf of Tonkin incident that was deliberately falsified, or do we talk about the loss of liberty at home during the war, etc?
'The whole universe is going to die!'
I voted other ... The Military Industrial Complex is the only clear victor.
Last edited by Turin; 03-28-11 at 08:42 PM.
'I believe that, as long as there is plenty, poverty is evil.' - Bobby Kennedy
Let's simplify things then, the government of Vietnam OWNED the government of the United States. Agreed?
* The French
they fled in defeat
* The British
they never showed up, unlike the aussies and ROK
* The Americans
we fled in defeat
* The Canadians
* The Chinese
they were the wellspring of supplies during the war. vietnam - south as well as north - was in its orbit after the war, making the chinese the ulitmate winner. thru their support, the chinese sent the non Communist world power home in shame. winning!
* The Russians
the war fractured its relationship with china, so no, russia lost this one, too
* The Japanese
not even playing the game. no position to win or lose
* The Vietnamese
many did. those who aided the USA during the war, not so much. Christian Montagnards, who were our foremost indigenous ally, are still being persecuted (and the UN has ceased monitoring the ongoing mistreatment of these people.) the Montagnards were the biggest losers of the war.
* No one
only where no one gets hurt. never seen during times of war
another poster, Dion, nailed it. the military industrial complex won ... and continues to win big to this day
- Colonel Paul YinglingNobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.
Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.
All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.