View Poll Results: Who won the Vietnam War?

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  • The French

    2 1.28%
  • The British

    1 0.64%
  • The Americans

    9 5.77%
  • The Canadians

    2 1.28%
  • The Chinese

    4 2.56%
  • The Russians

    4 2.56%
  • The Japanese

    0 0%
  • The Vietnamese

    71 45.51%
  • No one

    44 28.21%
  • Other

    19 12.18%
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Thread: Who won the Vietnam War?

  1. #191
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Not even China is really a Communist country any more. It would be a lot easier to compete with in international trade if it were, but it's not. Communism is dead.
    China is pretty hard-core neo-mercantilist with heavy state control today...
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  2. #192
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    So, it was the Communist Party that installed a capitalist system, or it was the Communists that united China? Neither one seems to make a lot of sense.

    Wasn't China pretty unified before the Communists took over?

    Why would a Communist government institute capitalism?
    No, it wasn't. After the fall of the Qing Dynasty, there was a short period of time when Yuan Shikai led the country, but after his short bid to make himself emperor ended with his death, China largely fell into warlordism. Chiang Kai-shek and his nationalists were able to take control of large parts of the country by the late 1920s, but many areas were still out of his control and by the 1930s, there was a full scale civil war with the Communists. Then, the Japanese sheared off a large chunk of the northeast n the early 30s before launching an all-out war against China in 1937. Following WWII, the Civil War resumed, puncuated with a Communist victory in 1949 and their unification of China was completed when they took Hainan island (at that time part of Guangdong province) from the Chiang Nationalists in 1950.
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  3. #193
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    Nope. Read up to page 3 and it still doesn't say why China had to have adopted Communism in order to succeed later. You will have to actually find the parts that actually answer that question.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

  4. #194
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Only because of politics... otherwise we could have and would have killed every single one of them, as well as invade and conquer that dinky little island 90 miles to the south...
    Obviously you are too young to have been involved in that illegal one way or the other. The Koolies, NIPS, VC, Gooks, whatever you want to call the bendly legged, little, yellow skinned, bsatards doesnt matter. The excuses you put forward are wrong to say the least. The USA was DEFEATED and HUMILIATED by them.

    It was the USA's second major defeat. The first being the glorious voctory of FIDEL CASTRO and the CUBAN people at the bay of Pigs.

  5. #195
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yukon View Post
    Obviously you are too young to have been involved in that illegal one way or the other. The Koolies, NIPS, VC, Gooks, whatever you want to call the bendly legged, little, yellow skinned, bsatards doesnt matter. The excuses you put forward are wrong to say the least. The USA was DEFEATED and HUMILIATED by them.

    It was the USA's second major defeat. The first being the glorious voctory of FIDEL CASTRO and the CUBAN people at the bay of Pigs.
    ohh... we have a *live* one here.... this could get interesting...
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  6. #196
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Vietnam won of course. To say anything different would be lying to yourself. What some people don't want to admit is that the world, the United States, and Vietnam probably would have been much better off we never got involved in the first place.

    Just as communisms failure to account for human nature represents an inherent design flaw in the system, so too does any military strategy that fails to account for the effects of domestic politics. We lost Vietnam, yep, say it yourselves. "We lost a war." You can debate the causes all you want, but you can't change the facts.

  7. #197
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Vietnam was a victory for the wroking man over imperialist yellow dogs.

  8. #198
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    you could say that their allies (the north vietnamese and the chinese) won also; but they actually had to wage another - seperate - campaign, which i consider to be their victory.
    The countries who sold them the weapons are the real winners...

    ricksfolly

  9. #199
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yukon View Post
    Vietnam was a victory for the wroking man over imperialist yellow dogs.
    Tell that to all of the poor people who decided to flee on boats...
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  10. #200
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Tell that to all of the poor people who decided to flee on boats...
    I was gonna warn you not to take the bait...too late lol.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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