View Poll Results: Who won the Vietnam War?

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  • The French

    2 1.28%
  • The British

    1 0.64%
  • The Americans

    9 5.77%
  • The Canadians

    2 1.28%
  • The Chinese

    4 2.56%
  • The Russians

    4 2.56%
  • The Japanese

    0 0%
  • The Vietnamese

    71 45.51%
  • No one

    44 28.21%
  • Other

    19 12.18%
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Thread: Who won the Vietnam War?

  1. #151
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    Maybe the killing in Vietnam and Cambodia would not be so horrendous without US involvement. If the South was not supplied by the US to fight against the North, the unification of the country would have happened much sooner with much less hunger for vengance by the North. In cambodia, without US encouragement, who knows if Lon Nol would actually succeed in overthrowing Sikhanouk, then there would not have been the insanity of the Khmer Rouge.

    Politicians should not play God, especially in regions with cultures they couldn't understand.
    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    Did I say anywhere that the North was justified?
    That's what it sounds like to me. If not then I apologies for jumping the gun, but do you really think the violence would have been less without the U.S. involvement? It seems to me that Communist regimes always have policies of killing those that would oppose them for the Good of the Country and Party.

  2. #152
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    Maybe the killing in Vietnam and Cambodia would not be so horrendous without US involvement. If the South was not supplied by the US to fight against the North, the unification of the country would have happened much sooner with much less hunger for vengance by the North.
    ah, and the south would have collapsed much quicker to the victorious nothern communists.

    like in China.

    how'd that work out for them?

    on the same vein, it occurs to me that fewer southerners would have died if the North had let them succeed after the first battle of Bull Run. fewer Japanese would have died if we had just let them have China. fewer Germans would have died if we had just let them have france and spend themselves duking it out against the USSR.
    Last edited by cpwill; 03-24-11 at 08:15 AM.

  3. #153
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    which is why i'm actually glad that our institutions are left wing; though i wish they would allow some contrarian viewpoints. it forces conservative students to think and helps keep the liberal ones dumb.
    I think you confuse not accepting Fallacious arguments as being intolerant of divise opinions. In a news world were some any extreme unsupported nonsense view is equal to supported logical and well reasoned views, some may well be confused and think there is no difference between the two. Too often is not the view that is the problem, but how poorly it is reasoned. When you break something down to the point of distorting the actual view you're responding to, or even losing any logic in your own view, there is room to criticise.

    Also, it has been my experience that conservatives, many conservative students, are as likley, if not more so, to try and stop actual discussion. I won't go so far as to say liberals have never been wrong, but it is important to recognize intolerance and an unwillingness to listen is not limited to any ideaology.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #154
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I think you confuse not accepting Fallacious arguments as being intolerant of divise opinions. In a news world were some any extreme unsupported nonsense view is equal to supported logical and well reasoned views, some may well be confused and think there is no difference between the two. Too often is not the view that is the problem, but how poorly it is reasoned. When you break something down to the point of distorting the actual view you're responding to, or even losing any logic in your own view, there is room to criticise.

    Also, it has been my experience that conservatives, many conservative students, are as likley, if not more so, to try and stop actual discussion. I won't go so far as to say liberals have never been wrong, but it is important to recognize intolerance and an unwillingness to listen is not limited to any ideaology.
    Funny you say that as I posted an outline explaining the fallacy of declaring the Domino Theory invalid challenging some liberals on that assertion and it has been ignored by the leftists on this board... Who does not want to engage in honest discussion???
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  5. #155
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Funny you say that as I posted an outline explaining the fallacy of declaring the Domino Theory invalid challenging some liberals on that assertion and it has been ignored by the leftists on this board... Who does not want to engage in honest discussion???
    I missed your post, so I'll have to go back and find it, but you might try re-reading what I wrote.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #156
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Not entirely true. Had the Communists consolidated control of Vietnam in the 1950s or early 1960s, then the Domino Theory may very well have come to pass. Thailand was struggling with Communists through most of the 1950s and into the 1960s. Malaysia had the 'Emergency' in the late 1950s and Indonesia had an attempted Communist coup (from the PKI) in the mid-1960s. Most of this (except an ongoing Communist insurgency in the Philippines) had pretty much died down by 1975. So, saying that Communist victory in the old French Indo-China not resulting in the further spread of communism disproved the Domino Theory shows an ignorance of the change in the situation in the rest of the region between 1954 and 1975.
    This is the type of revisionist efforts that have been common in recent years. When something doesn't pan out, the approach is to say it would have had not we spent the years and lives to prevent it. That is not neccessarily true. If you actually believe our system is superior, there is no reason to assume communism could have defeated in long term, regardless of what happened in that region. And as VN was clearly willing to work with us early on, a little support from us would have gone a long way toward creating a much better environment.

    So, while none of us can prove beyond all doubt about what would have happened, we know the dominos did nto fall, and that communism has not held up well. I also think it is also safe conclusion to reach that those deaths, those lives spent in VN were needless and wrong to spend. We can also clearly see that a democracy will not support long wars without very good reasoning for them. Stopping a maybe domino theroy will never likely be seen as good enough reason to engage in a long term war. Not for a majority, meaning you will not ever have public support to do this.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #157
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Obviously, the North Vietnamese.
    They were destined to win and rule all along.
    That we had an unfounded fear of communism cost the lives of thousands of Americans..
    And this may happen again.

  8. #158
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    This is the type of revisionist efforts that have been common in recent years. When something doesn't pan out, the approach is to say it would have had not we spent the years and lives to prevent it. That is not neccessarily true. If you actually believe our system is superior, there is no reason to assume communism could have defeated in long term, regardless of what happened in that region. And as VN was clearly willing to work with us early on, a little support from us would have gone a long way toward creating a much better environment.

    So, while none of us can prove beyond all doubt about what would have happened, we know the dominos did nto fall, and that communism has not held up well. I also think it is also safe conclusion to reach that those deaths, those lives spent in VN were needless and wrong to spend. We can also clearly see that a democracy will not support long wars without very good reasoning for them. Stopping a maybe domino theroy will never likely be seen as good enough reason to engage in a long term war. Not for a majority, meaning you will not ever have public support to do this.
    I am not saying we can conclusively prove either theory... and btw, I have been advocating this view since the 1980s... You can't deny the regional geopolitical situation was far different in 1975 than it was in 1954...
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  9. #159
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    I am not saying we can conclusively prove either theory... and btw, I have been advocating this view since the 1980s... You can't deny the regional geopolitical situation was far different in 1975 than it was in 1954...
    Things are often fluid and not stagnent, which makes predictions difficult. That's one reason why we shouldn't try to shape the world.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #160
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Obviously, the North Vietnamese.
    They were destined to win and rule all along.
    That we had an unfounded fear of communism cost the lives of thousands of Americans..
    And this may happen again.
    Those who don't understand history are doomed to repeat it.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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