View Poll Results: Who won the Vietnam War?

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  • The French

    2 1.28%
  • The British

    1 0.64%
  • The Americans

    9 5.77%
  • The Canadians

    2 1.28%
  • The Chinese

    4 2.56%
  • The Russians

    4 2.56%
  • The Japanese

    0 0%
  • The Vietnamese

    71 45.51%
  • No one

    44 28.21%
  • Other

    19 12.18%
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Thread: Who won the Vietnam War?

  1. #111
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I agree, but I think it would've been better for them to realize their own mistake rather than for us to do something about it. Had we won in Vietnam, the alternative would most likely have been a Vietnam united under a corrupt, and just-as-autocratic RVN regime (either that or it would have become a perpetually unstable government). That's why I believe that the Vietnamese people would have been screwed either way, but that it was better for them to make a mistake and learn from it instead of what actually happened.
    I agree. Back then, Cold War mode, we wanted stability and to deny the communists space. The result of that was a tendency to support dictators that would keep communism out and be our buddy-buddy. To detrimental effect for our reputation. Iraq does represent a change to this policy, as we went to explicitly help the Iraqis form their own democracy, rather than put a strongman in charge. I look forward to us getting out entirely and let them sort out the last details.

  2. #112
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    No one won it.

    The US acheived it's goal of making the South militarily self-sufficient, with the premise that the US would continue to supply war materiel as needed. Two years after the US combat troops left Vietnam, the South was defeated, mainly because the Democrat Congress in it's euphoria at having unseated Nixon naturally stabbed America's ally in the back.
    How can you say that when the South Vietnamese never had a chance of winning with war without direct U.S. involvement?

    The NORTH Vietnamese achieved their goal of enslaving those in the South as didn't manage to escape.
    True

    The French haven't won a war since Austerlitz.
    Sino-French War... 1885

    The Russians got what they wanted.
    True... they wanted Viet Nam as a check on China...
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  3. #113
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    The Chinese got what they wanted.
    Absolutely not. The Soviets backed the North Vietnamese and thereafter, Viet Nam was used by the Soviets as a check on China. Furthermore, China invaded Viet Nam in 1979.
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  4. #114
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I agree. Back then, Cold War mode, we wanted stability and to deny the communists space. The result of that was a tendency to support dictators that would keep communism out and be our buddy-buddy. To detrimental effect for our reputation. Iraq does represent a change to this policy, as we went to explicitly help the Iraqis form their own democracy, rather than put a strongman in charge. I look forward to us getting out entirely and let them sort out the last details.
    We supported Saddam until he kicked out Western oil. Then we brought about regime change to support another currupt government in Iraq, one that would let Western oil back in. What is it that changed again?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  5. #115
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Harry Turtledove.
    Best post of the thread...

    still, the naysayers haven't actually said what is wrong with the early posts...
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  6. #116
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amazed View Post
    The Communist North, they didn't "reunite" anything......they conquered the South.
    What are you talking about? Vietnam was united during dynastic times and was only divided following World War II...
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  7. #117
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    If I were living during that time, I would fail to see how Communism directly affected me (my life, my safety, my family, my personal livelihood etc.) and if it constituted a direct threat to our national security, before I signed up to fight. It's really hard to see how the activities of people in one tiny slice of real estate in Southeast Asia really puts the livelihoods of ordinary Americans on the line.
    Hmmmm, you seem to to be an isolationist, Those active in the world news and politics at the time felt really strongly on these issues. The American government and it's people use the American values in order to answer the very hard question's the world politics proposed during that time and even today. All these decisions do have consequences you are not aware of, if America just didn't give a **** what happened around them through history i don't think we would be as near as large of a world power. If communist countries just arose without any of our resistance
    BUT this is kinda pointless trying to describe the importance of American values in history and today to a Liberal (I don't really mean that in offense).




    Sorry if I misunderstood, the wording in your previous confusing made it a bit confusing. Again, I personally believe the fear to be entirely overblown.
    Yeaaa, i just don't agree, i just know from personal experience from peoples attitudes toward communism when it is mentioned, and just basic american history with McCarthy'ism(sp?) and stuff. In recent politics it's usually popular to call people a communist, if it was nothing to fear , why would someone care?


    Perhaps. That hardly makes socialists evil people, or gives Americans a legitimate reason to fear Communism today.
    True, i am using the word fear more loosely then you seem to believe i am suggesting when it relates to today. If a communist person went on next elections ballet, i think people would fear it; hell i would, i would have no idea this world was coming to.

    This part is more speculation- but i think a lot of communist of today are pushing for Socialism due to the much unpopularity it has if you would ever try it out in politics.
    - And in my opinion, not that socialist people are evil, but i think socialism is bad/evil/violates man's rights.

  8. #118
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    We supported Saddam until he kicked out Western oil. Then we brought about regime change to support another currupt government in Iraq, one that would let Western oil back in. What is it that changed again?
    The Iraqi government was not installed by us, it was democratically elected. They are not exactly friendly to our oil companies, since we failed to get any contracts last round. So what was that you were saying that it was all about us getting our oil companies back into Iraq?

  9. #119
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Right, we allowed Vietnam to fall to communism which created a domino effect and everyone is a communist today. Oh, wait, none of that proganda turned out to be true did it? They have been a tradeing partner of ours since the early 90's.

    If we had ended the war years before we did, the only change in outcome would have been tens of thousands less people would have been killed and our National debt would not have increased as much.
    Not entirely true. Had the Communists consolidated control of Vietnam in the 1950s or early 1960s, then the Domino Theory may very well have come to pass. Thailand was struggling with Communists through most of the 1950s and into the 1960s. Malaysia had the 'Emergency' in the late 1950s and Indonesia had an attempted Communist coup (from the PKI) in the mid-1960s. Most of this (except an ongoing Communist insurgency in the Philippines) had pretty much died down by 1975. So, saying that Communist victory in the old French Indo-China not resulting in the further spread of communism disproved the Domino Theory shows an ignorance of the change in the situation in the rest of the region between 1954 and 1975.
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  10. #120
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    The Iraqi government was not installed by us, it was democratically elected. They are not exactly friendly to our oil companies, since we failed to get any contracts last round. So what was that you were saying that it was all about us getting our oil companies back into Iraq?
    The Interim goverment was installed by us and we killed many of the opposition party, and kept the most powerful military on the planet there to influence the elections and keep our troops there to prop up the "new" corrupt government that still can't stand against its own people. Western oil has money invested in Iraqi oil for the first time in over 3 decades thanks to our war.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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