View Poll Results: Who won the Vietnam War?

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  • The French

    2 1.28%
  • The British

    1 0.64%
  • The Americans

    9 5.77%
  • The Canadians

    2 1.28%
  • The Chinese

    4 2.56%
  • The Russians

    4 2.56%
  • The Japanese

    0 0%
  • The Vietnamese

    71 45.51%
  • No one

    44 28.21%
  • Other

    19 12.18%
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Thread: Who won the Vietnam War?

  1. #101
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Are you saying that the Peninsular Campaign was an example of an offensive strategy?

    Edit: would you agree that the Confederates during the Civil War were pretty much in the same strategic position that we were in during the Revolutionary War?
    Not even hardly.[/QUOTE]

    The Peninsular Wars were an example of good defensive strategy on the part of the Spanish, and an example of Clausewitz' maxim that defense is the stronger from or war (which is different from saying the defensive side will always win.)

    As for the Patriots vs. the Confederates, it is my belief that their situations weren't the same, but were similar enough.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 03-22-11 at 08:32 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  2. #102
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    And i want to just add that things in vietnam have improved immensely economically and politically. what i admire about vietnam as opposed to china is that they have granted limited democracy but stuck to there socialist system unlike china which did the exact opposite.
    'I believe that, as long as there is plenty, poverty is evil.' - Bobby Kennedy

  3. #103
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I'm a history major and yes I realize this. However I believe the fear was entirely overblown.



    The Cold War is hardly something I would call a "direct" conflict. For the most part, it was about two superpowers that would have been going at it regardless of ideology. Apart from the air raid drills and all that, in realistic terms the Cold War had little effect on the lives of ordinary Americans except when we chose to make it a problem, and in the lone case of the Cuban Missile Crisis.



    Really? Where? The West has won. History has proved Communism to be a failure at the state level and ineffective at the economic level. Communism defeated itself because it wasn't feasible.



    If you could list some concrete examples I would like to hear how Communism permeated American culture. We certainly don't go running around singing L'Internationale or calling each other "comrade."



    Because it is becoming more and more irrelevant. Stalinism is dead.
    I didn't say the Cold war was direct, but the Vietnam war was one of the results from it. And i disagree on how you think the Cold war did not impact American citizens. My Dad and many other's willingly signed up for the Vietnam war because of it's influence.

    The remnants of the disregard of communism still exist in our culture everywhere, this is shown even in the opposition to socialism, to many, China is considered and revised communist country.

    "If you could list some concrete examples I would like to hear how Communism permeated American culture. We certainly go run around singing L'Internationale or calling each other "comrade.""

    I meant the fear of communism permeated our culture. How would saying the other make sense?
    Plus i personally think a lot of the old communist thinking is being represented by socialist today.

  4. #104
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badfish420 View Post
    actually most people in both north and south vietnam supported the communists.
    According to Ike himself, if Vietnam had been allowed to be reunified and proper elections held, Ho Chi Minh would have won 80% of the vote, so the fact that the Communists at least garnered a vast amount of public support during the 50s is true.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  5. #105
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    I didn't say the Cold war was direct, but the Vietnam war was one of the results from it. And i disagree on how you think the Cold war did not impact American citizens. My Dad and many other's willingly signed up for the Vietnam war because of it's influence.
    If I were living during that time, I would fail to see how Communism directly affected me (my life, my safety, my family, my personal livelihood etc.) and if it constituted a direct threat to our national security, before I signed up to fight. It's really hard to see how the activities of people in one tiny slice of real estate in Southeast Asia really puts the livelihoods of ordinary Americans on the line.

    I meant the fear of communism permeated our culture. How would saying the other make sense?
    Sorry if I misunderstood, the wording in your previous confusing made it a bit confusing. Again, I personally believe the fear to be entirely overblown.

    Plus i personally think a lot of the old communist thinking is being represented by socialist today.
    Perhaps. That hardly makes socialists evil people, or gives Americans a legitimate reason to fear Communism today.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  6. #106
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    If you could list some concrete examples I would like to hear how Communism permeated American culture. We certainly go run around singing L'Internationale or calling each other "comrade.
    that would be dope, comrade.
    'I believe that, as long as there is plenty, poverty is evil.' - Bobby Kennedy

  7. #107
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badfish420 View Post
    actually most people in both north and south vietnam supported the communists.
    Hardly. They had their fair share of support, no doubt, but did they really have a choice? Communism talks a good game, plus the Communist Party was an organizing principle that the south lacked sufficiently in opposition, but when it was over in '75, communists reverted to their true colors and purged ideological dissent. That is the only way a "communist" movement can survive post conflict: it becomes a autocracy. The people of Vietnam suffered decades of maltreatment.

  8. #108
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Hardly. They had their fair share of support, no doubt, but did they really have a choice? Communism talks a good game, plus the Communist Party was an organizing principle that the south lacked sufficiently in opposition, but when it was over in '75, communists reverted to their true colors and purged ideological dissent. That is the only way a "communist" movement can survive post conflict: it becomes a autocracy. The people of Vietnam suffered decades of maltreatment.
    I agree, but I think it would've been better for them to realize their own mistake rather than for us to do something about it. Had we won in Vietnam, the alternative would most likely have been a Vietnam united under a corrupt, and just-as-autocratic RVN regime (either that or it would have become a perpetually unstable government). That's why I believe that the Vietnamese people would have been screwed either way, but that it was better for them to make a mistake and learn from it instead of what actually happened.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 03-22-11 at 10:16 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  9. #109
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesthebond View Post
    Why do you think that it was Democrats who created aids?

    I dont, that was meant as a snide comment about the free sex thing during the nam war ...nam was a big excuse for alot of privledged prima donna'

  10. #110
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    Re: Who won the Vietnam War?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I agree, but I think it would've been better for them to realize their own mistake rather than for us to do something about it. Had we won in Vietnam, the alternative would most likely have been a Vietnam united under a corrupt, and just-as-autocratic RVN regime. That's why I believe that the Vietnamese people would have been screwed either way, but that it was better for them to make a mistake and learn from it instead of what actually happened.
    you could be right, but personal freedom is the main issue. Communism is bad because it suppresses the individual. The American value's and the Cold War alliances is why America think's any government that supports Liberty is 100X better then any communist government, and it's a crime against man to restrict Liberty. So regardless if it comes out worse or better, they have their personal freedom and liberty.

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