View Poll Results: Neoconservatives?

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  • They're conservatives

    5 31.25%
  • They're centrists/moderates

    7 43.75%
  • They're liberals who call themselves conservative

    3 18.75%
  • Once a Trotskyist, always a Trotskyist

    1 6.25%
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Thread: Is Neoconservatism a form of centrism or conservatism?

  1. #11
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    Re: Is Neoconservatism a form of centrism or conservatism?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgblack View Post
    You've doubtlessly read and seen quite a bit of neoconservatism by now. They're former liberals/Trotskyists who grew disenchanted with the liberal movement in the 60s and became conservatives. Like most conservatives, they're ardently anti-Communist and oppose excesses of the welfare state, though they tend to find some portions of the welfare state to be acceptable and call organized religion a "noble lie" that exists to maintain social order.
    In an earlier day I believe they would have been called fascists.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #12
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    Re: Is Neoconservatism a form of centrism or conservatism?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgblack View Post
    all organized religion a "noble lie" that exists to maintain social order.
    Michael Novak would take extreme objection toward that idea of yours promoted by lazy journalists regurgitating book reviews and listening to the nearest foaming-at-the-mouth academic who took little care with their research.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  3. #13
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    Re: Is Neoconservatism a form of centrism or conservatism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    In an earlier day I believe they would have been called fascists.
    In Berkley and Columbia in the 1960s, perhaps.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  4. #14
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    Re: Is Neoconservatism a form of centrism or conservatism?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgblack View Post
    You've doubtlessly read and seen quite a bit of neoconservatism by now. They're former liberals/Trotskyists who grew disenchanted with the liberal movement in the 60s and became conservatives. Like most conservatives, they're ardently anti-Communist and oppose excesses of the welfare state, though they tend to find some portions of the welfare state to be acceptable and call organized religion a "noble lie" that exists to maintain social order.
    They're also ambitious war mongers who believe US is the only power that can control the world. Hate the UN because it takes away US power, as evidenced when Bush and Cheney ignored the UN vote not to invade Iraq.

    Here's the list of those that sent a Letter to Obama... I doubt if any of them was in the service.

    For the sake of our security as well as America's credibility with people who seek freedom everywhere, we ask you to act as quickly as possible to ensure that the people of Libya and the world know that we are willing to back up our principles with action.

    Sincerely, Stephen E. Biegun
    Max Boot
    Ellen Bork
    Paul Bremer
    Scott Carpenter
    Elizabeth Cheney
    Eliot Cohen
    Seth Cropsey
    Thomas Donnelly
    Michele Dunne
    Eric Edelman
    Jamie Fly
    Reuel Marc Gerecht
    William Inboden
    Bruce Pitcairn Jackson
    Ash Jain
    Robert Kagan
    David Kramer
    Irina Krasovskaya
    William Kristol
    Tod Lindberg
    Ann Marlowe
    Cliff May
    Joshua Muravchik
    Michael O'Hanlon
    Martin Peretz
    Danielle Pletka
    John Podhoretz
    Randy Scheunemann
    Gary J. Schmitt
    Dan Senor
    William Taft
    Marc Thiessen
    Daniel Twining
    Ken Weinstein
    Leon Wieseltier
    Rich Williamson
    Damon Wilson

  5. #15
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    Re: Is Neoconservatism a form of centrism or conservatism?

    Neocons are "I can't believe it's not liberal" or Liberal Lite or Nutra-liberal.

  6. #16
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    Re: Is Neoconservatism a form of centrism or conservatism?

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    They're also ambitious war mongers who believe US is the only power that can control the world. Hate the UN because it takes away US power, as evidenced when Bush and Cheney ignored the UN vote not to invade Iraq.
    The recent iteration believes that the United States is the only possible superpower currently who can greatly influence affairs in the world, and because of that and its character of goodness, the United States should do it before a greater foe appears that can shape world events in harmful ways. They thus believe in defense and advocation of democratic principles throughout the world. Some believe in using force more frequently than others, however. The tempered disdain they have toward United Nations because it typically has been an ineffectual arm of international relations and has been a platform for countries to spread either anti-American attitudes or anti-Israeli attitudes that were seen by Moynihan and Kirkpatrick as outrageous*-all the while we provide the majority of support for the organization. Most do not argue removal of the United States from the United Nations, but rather see it as a flawed system and if a better alternative were to be provided, it might be useful to do so.

    *See 2:45 at
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 03-23-11 at 08:40 PM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  7. #17
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    Re: Is Neoconservatism a form of centrism or conservatism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    The recent iteration believes that the United States is the only possible superpower currently who can greatly influence affairs in the world, and because of that and its character of goodness, the United States should do it before a greater foe appears that can shape world events in harmful ways. They thus believe in defense and advocation of democratic principles throughout the world. Some believe in using force more frequently than others, however. The tempered disdain they have toward United Nations because it typically has been an ineffectual arm of international relations and has been a platform for countries to spread either anti-American attitudes or anti-Israeli attitudes that were seen by Moynihan and Kirkpatrick as outrageous*-all the while we provide the majority of support for the organization. Most do not argue removal of the United States from the United Nations, but rather see it as a flawed system and if a better alternative were to be provided, it might be useful to do so.

    *See 2:45 at

    Yep, that's fascism.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  8. #18
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    Re: Is Neoconservatism a form of centrism or conservatism?

    Neocons are right wing socialists. They favor welfare and government intrusion into our personal lives.

  9. #19
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    Re: Is Neoconservatism a form of centrism or conservatism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yep, that's fascism.
    Only to fools without context but with slippery mouths.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  10. #20
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    Re: Is Neoconservatism a form of centrism or conservatism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Only to fools without context but with slippery mouths.
    Gotta agree with fiddy here. It's not really fascism.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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