View Poll Results: What Best Describes Your Positions?

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  • I supported the invasion of Iraq and I support the Libyan Intervention

    18 29.51%
  • I opposed the Invasion of Iraq, I support the Libyan Intervention

    16 26.23%
  • I supported the Invasion of Iraq, I oppose the Libyan Intervention

    9 14.75%
  • I opposed both.

    18 29.51%
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Thread: Where Were You in 2002? Where are you today?

  1. #11
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    Re: Where Were You in 2002? Where are you today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You are trying to create something that is not there.
    No.

    The hypocrisy of the Left already exists and their double standard is flying high with their irrational support of this what-would-be-silly-if-it-weren't-for-the-dead-people intervention in Libya.

    Being consistent solely for the sake of consistency is stupid.
    But being consistent by being able to articulate a coherent and non-contradictory world view from which such decisions are derived is a very good thing indeed.

    Are you going to claim that people are being killed by Gadhaffy? Then you can't ignore that people were being killed by Hussein.

    Are you going to claim that world oil supplies are at risk because of the revolt in Libya? Outside of the fact that Libya doesn't contribute that much anyway, there's the problem you people have with the fools that spent the last two decades chanting "no blood for oil", fools that are on your side.

    Are you going to claim the French are stealing the mantle of "World Leader" from the US? Well, whatever, that's a damn silly thing if you are.

    You need to articulate your reasons for your response on this poll and leave it up to others to decide if your making sense or not.

    Simply declaring "situations are different" isn't sufficient. Everyone knows circumstances always change. You have to describe what the differences are and why you feel they're sufficiently divergent to support what are clearly contradictory positions that on their face have no motivation but blind partisan loyalty.

    The US does have an interest in our actions in Libya, which is that it is improve our foreign relations with a number of our allies alone. If it helps to create regime change that is more friendly towards us, that would be awesome too.
    Maintaining the "proper" entangling alliances was the motivation behind the invasion of Iraq, too.

  2. #12
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    Re: Where Were You in 2002? Where are you today?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    I'm not supportive of invading them, but I would be supportive if an invasion happened, there's a subtle difference.

    It's not subtle.

    Stating what it is will earn the Mayor a warning, so it shall not be stated.

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    Re: Where Were You in 2002? Where are you today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Would those be the same situation as Libya? Why do you insist on simplistic comparisons in a complex world?
    Mayor Snorkum didn't make the statement "I support Libya because it's about deposing a dictator". The person standing on your side of the Let's Do Something Stupid In Libya Line said that, yet you're claiming the Mayor is being simplistic?

    BBL

  4. #14
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    Re: Where Were You in 2002? Where are you today?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    I'm not supportive of invading them, but I would be supportive if an invasion happened, there's a subtle difference.
    I think someone is a closest War Hawk. =)

  5. #15
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    Re: Where Were You in 2002? Where are you today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    No.

    The hypocrisy of the Left already exists and their double standard is flying high with their irrational support of this what-would-be-silly-if-it-weren't-for-the-dead-people intervention in Libya.
    There is no double standard. You have shown no double standard. It is not just reasonable, but appropriate to have different views on different events. You know why? Because they are different. Why are you having such a hard time comprehending this simple fact?



    But being consistent by being able to articulate a coherent and non-contradictory world view from which such decisions are derived is a very good thing indeed.

    Are you going to claim that people are being killed by Gadhaffy? Then you can't ignore that people were being killed by Hussein.

    Are you going to claim that world oil supplies are at risk because of the revolt in Libya? Outside of the fact that Libya doesn't contribute that much anyway, there's the problem you people have with the fools that spent the last two decades chanting "no blood for oil", fools that are on your side.

    Are you going to claim the French are stealing the mantle of "World Leader" from the US? Well, whatever, that's a damn silly thing if you are.

    You need to articulate your reasons for your response on this poll and leave it up to others to decide if your making sense or not.

    Simply declaring "situations are different" isn't sufficient. Everyone knows circumstances always change. You have to describe what the differences are and why you feel they're sufficiently divergent to support what are clearly contradictory positions that on their face have no motivation but blind partisan loyalty.
    Nowhere did I make any of those claims. That is the problem. You are so tied up into your own view that you cannot see how other people can arrive at different views. Let's look at one big difference: we have not made a large scale invasion of Libya, we did in Iraq. That is just one different, there are only dozens of others.

    Maintaining the "proper" entangling alliances was the motivation behind the invasion of Iraq, too.
    Not really, no. The justification for Iraq was WMD's and deposing a dictator who was seen as destabilizing a key region of the globe. Iraq hurt us in terms of overall foreign relations.
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  6. #16
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    Re: Where Were You in 2002? Where are you today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    It's not subtle.

    Stating what it is will earn the Mayor a warning, so it shall not be stated.
    Great job.
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  7. #17
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    Re: Where Were You in 2002? Where are you today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    Mayor Snorkum didn't make the statement "I support Libya because it's about deposing a dictator". The person standing on your side of the Let's Do Something Stupid In Libya Line said that, yet you're claiming the Mayor is being simplistic?

    BBL
    I refuse to talk to someone who refers to themselves in third person, its a matter of principle and a good way to keep the stupid off me.

  8. #18
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    Re: Where Were You in 2002? Where are you today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    Where were you standing when GW Bush decided that Saddam Hussein needed to be removed from power by US military action?

    Where are you standing now, when Obama has decided to intervene in Libya?

    Are your positions consistent or blindly partisan?

    Mayor Snorkum opposed both because in neither case was a definable US interest served.

    Mayor Snorkum is also a US military veteran.

    Mayor Snorkum is neither Republican nor Democrat, but a Libertarian.
    The fundamental difference between Libya and Iraq is that the Libyan population is in active revolt against the government and are agitating for a democracy. The citizens in Iraq were not and, I believe, were not ready to take that fundamental step towards self rule and the poor results (rampant corruption, continuing sectarian violence, continuing tribalism, etc) are the result of that premature liberation. Another major difference is that the people of Libya were asking for our help while there is no evidence I know of that the people in Iraq did the same.

    With that consideration in mind, and the recognition that the two situations are not equivelent. I was and am against the affair in Iraq. I was for and am for the affair in afghanistan (since they were responsible for attacking us) and I am for the current actions in Libya.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 03-21-11 at 09:41 AM.

  9. #19
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    Re: Where Were You in 2002? Where are you today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I supported Afghanistan. I opposed Iraq, I support the actions today. Each is an entirely separate issue so how do you be consistent, unless you are opposed to war in general, or support heavy intervention? You are creating an entirely false dichotomy. You can have different views on different issues without being blindly partisan.
    Same here. The three are all different, and shouldn't be seen as exact comparisons.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #20
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    Re: Where Were You in 2002? Where are you today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    Are you equally supportive of invading China?
    Burma?
    Zaire?
    Saudi Arabia?Iran?
    Cuba?
    Venezuela?
    Saudi Arabia is a part of the problem. Libya - Egypt - Iraq - Afghanistan - Yemen - Jordan - "Palestine" - Syria - Iran - Pakstan - etc. - are all about the same regional problem. It's not just about dictators. It's about a specific region for a specific reason. Pretending that they are all oh so different because a line on a map tells you it is makes no sense. Neither does creating a confused stage for the sake of keeping it simple.

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