View Poll Results: Are we doing the right thing in Libya?

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Thread: Are we doing the right thing in Libya?

  1. #71
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    Re: Are we doing the right thing in Libya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    I agree, it's not a revolution if they have other people doing their fighting for them. If they can overthrow the existing government, they have the support and resolve to do so. Otherwise, they don't and have no business running Libya. I'm getting sick of people involved in a revolution whining that they can't fight the good fight alone. Then stop fighting already!
    Easy to say, but when your oppresive government has fighter jets, artillery and tanks, it is kind of hard. It isn't 1776 after all and all of the Russian equipment Khaddafy has at his disposal is not something the rebels have access to...
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  2. #72
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    Re: Are we doing the right thing in Libya?

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    For the record, I supported the action regarding Kosovo, though I did take a lot of heat for it living in China at the time, especially after the accidential bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade.
    The point has been lost. In these types of circumstances, you can't be subjective. If you want to bomb Libya to deliver democracy, then you must also do the same for every other country facing an oppressive dictator. There are countries with worse dictators than Libya, yet it doesn't change the fact that we should not and cannot police the world.



    Sure it was in all of these cases. Kosovars were being brutalized by the Yugoslav army. Iraq was in material violation of more than a dozen UN Security Council resolutions, all of which carried with them the authorization for the use of force. Saddam was a maniacal dictator who invaded two neighbors, used WMDs against his own people, and attemptede genocide against the Marsh Arabs in the south. I also agree it is appropriate in Libya as well.
    And where do you draw the line, and why do the draw the line there?


    Except that Mussolini was a dictator BEFORE the war started and he was on the side that STARTED the war. The same can't be said for Lincoln.
    Excuse me, let me correct myself. It referred to a crisis, not war.

    Is this the best you can do? We can agree to disagree on whether the aforementioned actions are justifiable or not. That is a matter of opinion. However, to argue that the U.S. was not democratic in the 1860s is really not open to debate. The U.S. was clearly one of the most, if not THE most, democratic states in the world at the time, regardless of its imperfections.
    Of course the U.S. was democratic, if by democratic you mean a one-party political system. The democrats that numbered seats in the U.S. congress at that time compare roughly to the number of Arab parties in Israel. Sure, Israel is a democracy. A democracy strictly for the Jewish people. And South Africa was a democracy strictly for the white minority. And the U.S., at that time, was a democracy for strictly white, Anglo men who lived in the North. By some standards, you could argue it was more democratic than other nations at that time, but certainly not ideally democratic. Furthermore, a democracy can still be run by a leader with dictatorial powers.

  3. #73
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    Re: Are we doing the right thing in Libya?

    I'm most probably not fully aware of all aspects involved in this Libyan mix-up, but I was under the impression that there were some members of various terrorist groups among the rebel forces, and perhaps also some money from them?

    My thought, based on that info, was to wonder if allowing rebel forces influenced by terrorists to take control of a country was advisable...

    But I likely don't have anywhere NEAR all the info.

    However, assuming that is accurate, would a terrorist-influenced Libya be enough of a threat to the US to prompt our stepping in to counter that influence?

    I’m probably missing something here, since I didn’t see anyone else talking about this aspect…

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  4. #74
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    Re: Are we doing the right thing in Libya?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    The point has been lost. In these types of circumstances, you can't be subjective. If you want to bomb Libya to deliver democracy, then you must also do the same for every other country facing an oppressive dictator. There are countries with worse dictators than Libya, yet it doesn't change the fact that we should not and cannot police the world.

    And where do you draw the line, and why do the draw the line there?
    I draw the line where an army of a dictator is deliberately killing civilians and we are in a position where we can help. It sucks that we have to pick and choose, but I believe that those of us who are free have a moral responsible to help those who are not free if we are in a position to. I actually completely agree with the U.S. assisting in this operation, but taking a secondary role to the Europeans as it appears we are in the direction of doing.



    Of course the U.S. was democratic, if by democratic you mean a one-party political system. The democrats that numbered seats in the U.S. congress at that time compare roughly to the number of Arab parties in Israel. Sure, Israel is a democracy. A democracy strictly for the Jewish people. And South Africa was a democracy strictly for the white minority. And the U.S., at that time, was a democracy for strictly white, Anglo men who lived in the North. By some standards, you could argue it was more democratic than other nations at that time, but certainly not ideally democratic. Furthermore, a democracy can still be run by a leader with dictatorial powers.
    The U.S. did NOT have a one-party political system. Lincoln was the very first Republican to hold the White House. His immediate predecessor was a Democrat and Congress was under Democrat control with a sizable majority just four years earlier.
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  5. #75
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    Re: Are we doing the right thing in Libya?

    We had to make a choice in this situation. To do nothing would have ensured that the rebels were crushed by Ghadaffi's superior numbers and arms. Since all we've done is evened the odds, I think we did the only thing we could to abdicate responsibility for the outcome. Now it's a fair fight between the rebels and Ghadaffi.
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  6. #76
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    Re: Are we doing the right thing in Libya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    Actually, yes indeed, the Constitution does reserve the power to declare war to the Congress. The job of the president is to enforce laws and engage in foreign policy... with the advice and consent of the US Senate.

    Hmmmm....not one word grants the president co-equal power to declare war.
    Obama isn't claiming a co-equal power and didn't declare war. I'm not even sure who we'd declare war on - Gaddafi?

    Yes, it's certainly irksome that Obama had time to consult with the UN in making this decision, but not with Congress (i.e. his own country) -- but declaration or no declaration, Congress always has the ultimate say in these matters. If they don't like it, they can choose not to fund it. Game over.

    Whereas I and many others believe Obama is acting within his scope as commander in chief, it's worth noting that Obama the candidate disagreed sharply with Obama the President: "The president does not have the power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation"

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    The little squabble in Libya presents no emergent or even delayed threat to the United States, it doesn't even alter the threats from Libya already in existence. In other words, we have no reason to intervene.
    That certainly seems to be the biggest issue: Why? (followed by 'how do we get out')

    There is no obvious US interest. He can claim a moral interest, but if that were true it seems we'd already be in places like the Ivory Coast. And here once again, Obama the candidate disagreed sharply with Obama the President: "Why invade Iraq and not North Korea or Burma? Why intervene in Bosnia and not Darfur?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    And yet, because Obama is doing it, the Left is going to be predictably supportive of this nonsense.
    Not from what I've seen.

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