View Poll Results: Are we doing the right thing in Libya?

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    22 35.48%
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Thread: Are we doing the right thing in Libya?

  1. #51
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    Re: Are we doing the right thing in Libya?

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    I wasn't trying to argue that it is definately part of the Middle East, though a strong case can be made for it. It was a part of pan-Arabism including proposed union with other states which are undeniably Middle Eastern.

    However, the original point was made that Libya was not even near the Middle East. However, even if you DON'T consider Libya part of the Middle East, it most certainly BORDERS it as Egypt most certainly is.

    As for African linkages, those are more manufactured than anything else. Libya was not generally regarded as one of the Maghrib area states that did have significant impact with West Africa (basically being the gold-salt trade which also brought a lot of slaves into the Mediterranean world.) Libya has historically been more Mediterranean in orientation and in closer orbit with Egypt and thus the Middle East rather than the Maghrib. Libyans even at one time conquered Egypt.

    The modern ties with the rest of Africa were mostly creations of Khaddafy during one of his fits of grandeur, particularly after his dreams of dominating a pan-Arab state fell apart...
    No disagreement here.
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  2. #52
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    Re: Are we doing the right thing in Libya?

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    I wasn't trying to argue that it is definately part of the Middle East, though a strong case can be made for it. It was a part of pan-Arabism including proposed union with other states which are undeniably Middle Eastern.

    However, the original point was made that Libya was not even near the Middle East. However, even if you DON'T consider Libya part of the Middle East, it most certainly BORDERS it as Egypt most certainly is.
    What I meant is that Libya is geographically far away from the nations in the Middle East that are currently rebelling, especially those on the Arabian Peninsula. I don't think that any particular outcome of Libya's civil war is going to have any bearing on the outcome of the protests there.
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  3. #53
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    Re: Are we doing the right thing in Libya?

    I don't know the motives of the rebels and I have yet hear anyone actually even attempt to prove that their motives are pure. As it stands now I don't know if they want to take back their country back for the right reasons or the wrong, I don't know if they are worse or better than who they have now. The idea that the UN, Obama, or anyone else has made a decision on it tells me they either know something I don't or they're acting just to act.

    edit: Whatever their motives are however I don't support helping them.
    Last edited by Henrin; 03-24-11 at 09:18 PM.

  4. #54
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    Re: Are we doing the right thing in Libya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    The British won the Revolutionary War? First I've heard of that.
    The U.S. didn't fight the Revolutionary War. We were still just colonies back then. That's why it was a revolution.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Are we doing the right thing in Libya?

    Obama is a blithering idiot when it comes to foreign policy. We don't need to be there. Let someone else do the heavy lifting this time. I mean really, can anyone see this ending well.

    We all know he's a cooked goose as far as 2012. This will just seal his fate. It's time for him to go anyway. I voted for him but I'll vote for anyone but him in 2012. Since I'm not a party hack, I have that freedom. He is shaping up to be another Bush. Spending American's lives on the refuse of the desert to appease the oil companies. I wonder how much Exxon is donating to the DNC this year?

  6. #56
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    Re: Are we doing the right thing in Libya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    What I meant is that Libya is geographically far away from the nations in the Middle East that are currently rebelling, especially those on the Arabian Peninsula. I don't think that any particular outcome of Libya's civil war is going to have any bearing on the outcome of the protests there.
    Which makes even less sense because this all started in Tunisia and Egypt, both states that border Libya... Furthermore, Libya has pan-Arabism links with Yemen and Syria from the days that they were involved, with Khaddafy trying to lead, a pan-Arab superstate...
    Last edited by ludahai; 03-25-11 at 09:07 PM.
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  7. #57
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    Re: Are we doing the right thing in Libya?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    The U.S. didn't fight the Revolutionary War. We were still just colonies back then. That's why it was a revolution.
    YES, and this is a civil war which is really none of our business. We're no more justified in bombing Libya back to the stone age than we are in bombing the majority of African, Middle Eastern, and Asian nations who are ruled by dictators that kill their own people.

    And retrospectively, would you have wanted GB or France to support the rebels in our civil war? Granted, every foreign policy decision is somehow made in the pursuit of national self-interest, but bombing Libya is not in our national self-interest. It was also not in our self-interest to bomb Iraq in the 1990s to try and get back at Saddam. The estimates claim we killed somewhere on the magnitude of hundreds of thousands, the majority of them children. This is where I agreed with Michael Moore when he suggested we build a 50-mile evacuation zone around Obama’s Nobel Peace Prize.

  8. #58
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    Re: Are we doing the right thing in Libya?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    And retrospectively, would you have wanted GB or France to support the rebels in our civil war?
    1. Was the United States a dictatorship run by the same madman for more than four decades?
    2. Was the Union army indiscriminantly killing people?

    Please, be aware of what you are saying when you make such comparisons...
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  9. #59
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    Re: Are we doing the right thing in Libya?

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    1. Was the United States a dictatorship run by the same madman for more than four decades?
    Not the same madman for four decades, but the US was definitely not a democracy at that time, as the government disenfranchised the 50% of the population that was female, as well as various ethnic minorities.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai
    2. Was the Union army indiscriminantly killing people?
    Yeah, probably. Sherman set the entire state of Georgia ablaze.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 03-26-11 at 09:21 PM.
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    Re: Are we doing the right thing in Libya?

    I'm torn.
    On one hand I'm thrilled that the Libyan rebels are not getting help.
    On the other hand I agree with Kucinich that Obama bypassing congress is an impeachable offense.
    And I also wonder if an objective is to, as Bob Herbert says, pour:

    "shiploads of cash into yet another war, this time in Libya, while simultaneously demolishing school budgets, closing libraries, laying off teachers and police officers, and generally letting the bottom fall out of the quality of life here at home."

    And of course the worse the contrived budget crisis the more excuses the Scott Walkers of the US have to try to bust unions.

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