View Poll Results: Do You Support a Single Payer Health Care System?

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  • Yes

    39 39.39%
  • No

    54 54.55%
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Thread: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

  1. #31
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Absolutely.
    Medical care is not related to our life expectancy issues, as we have a type of UHC already, for elderly people and we go to great lengths to keep them alive, that is one of the primary drivers of medical care cost inflation.

    Not only that but our racial and immigration demographics are completely different from those of other nations, we have a significant presence of immigrants from 3rd world nations, that never received any medical care and most likely did not have adequate childhood nutrition in their early years.

    Add in to that the cultural practices of all our varied subculture groups and we're bound to have a lesser life expectancy, UHC or not.

    Medical care is but a tiny piece of that puzzle.
    gotta disagree with your point about medical not being a factor in life expectancy. just as wealth increases life expectancy, access to good medical care increases life expectancy. we have 40 million uninsured people that this very minute may have some disease that is not being diagnosed early enough becasue they don't see a doctor regularly.

    The role of medical care in contributing to health improvements within societies

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    gotta disagree with your point about medical not being a factor in life expectancy. just as wealth increases life expectancy, access to good medical care increases life expectancy. we have 40 million uninsured people that this very minute may have some disease that is not being diagnosed early enough becasue they don't see a doctor regularly.

    The role of medical care in contributing to health improvements within societies
    To be fair, I think Harry recognizes that general trend but points to the United States as an exception for the reasons he mentioned above.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    To be fair, I think Harry recognizes that general trend but points to the United States as an exception for the reasons he mentioned above.
    thanks, but i don't think the u.s. is an exception.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  4. #34
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    gotta disagree with your point about medical not being a factor in life expectancy. just as wealth increases life expectancy, access to good medical care increases life expectancy. we have 40 million uninsured people that this very minute may have some disease that is not being diagnosed early enough becasue they don't see a doctor regularly.

    The role of medical care in contributing to health improvements within societies
    I do understand that, but the largest contributing factor in increasing the life expectancy of the human race, was not medical care but rather was access to enough food, bar none.

    Point is with have other factors effecting our population besides medical care, if it were UHC, that was the main driver in increased life expectancy, then why does Switzerland have higher life expectancy when they are an insurance based system?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  5. #35
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Recently, Rep. Conyers admitted that Obamacare was a platform to a single payer system (despite claims to the contrary during the debate).



    Conyers Proclaims Love for Obamacare « Single Payer Action

    In a search on the net, there are definitely people who advocate and support it in the US.

    Would you like to see single payer health care in the US?
    I have issues with things as they're progressing becuase everyone's being misleading.

    There are several problems and all need to be dealt with separately:
    Cost, for one, has risen in teh last few decades exponentially because of the insurance companies being present in our healthcare. Before WWII healther insurance wasn't commonplace - after - it became more common through employers as they were competing for employees.

    With health insurance and HMO's gaining popularity the cost went unchecked. Individuals weren't paying for everything - and so EVERYONE in the medical field felt less pressure to keep the costs *down* - and up the costs went.

    Costs also have risen because of the degree of technology that has risen in average healthcare areas. MRI's, Catscans, laserscopy, sonographic imagery - all very commonplace now and that makes the collective pool of cost rise.

    And we can go on - there are many reasons why cost has risen.

    so - regardless of the cost rising, that leaves 15% or so uncovered - and not benefiting at all from all the technology that we have at our disposal. China, Japan, Russia, Canada - these four countries provide, at least, a basic level of care *for everyone* - Yep, even China. So I think it's ridiculous that they outpace us in the number of people we cover.

    That is NOT saying that their systems are adequate, that the doctors who are employed by the government are paid enough or couldn't do a better job - but overall, it's important to them to provide something for everyone.

    So - there are some real reasons to have serious issue with our healthcare system. Unfortunately - most of hte people forming the strongest opinions aren't one of the 15%
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  6. #36
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I do understand that, but the largest contributing factor in increasing the life expectancy of the human race, was not medical care but rather was access to enough food, bar none.

    Point is with have other factors effecting our population besides medical care, if it were UHC, that was the main driver in increased life expectancy, then why does Switzerland have higher life expectancy when they are an insurance based system?
    You are correct, except that you cannot eliminate access to quality health care as part of the equation. Yes, there are other significant factors, but health care is a significant factor as well.

    UHC has proven to work, and effectively. Why I don't support such a system for the US is not because I don't like UHC, but that I think the disruption in the short term of switching over to such a system would outweigh the benefits, and that we can continue with a private insurance model and get where we need to go(full coverage in the US, controlled costs). While I don't think the health care reform bill actually succeeded much in this area, I do think it was better than nothing. I would have done it much differently, but something did in fact need to be done. Don at one point made a BN thread on health care cost increases which was downright scary, but I can't find the thread any more. Will look again in a couple minutes.

    Oh, and IIRC, the reason the Swiss have a higher life expectancy is that they have a significantly lower child mortality rate. Don't hold me to that though, that is working from my admittedly somewhat suspect memory.
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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  7. #37
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Found it. Don threads should almost be required reading:

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Today, CNN revealed:



    AMA launches ads slamming senators for not passing 'doc fix' - Jun. 3, 2010

    The Medicare payments argument is greatly inconsistent with the larger picture associated with Medicare expenditures. If one examines Medicare enrollment and Medicare expenditures data, one finds Medicare expenditures per Medicare enrollee came to:

    2001: $6,181
    2008: $10,357
    Change: +67.6%

    Moreover, in its latest Article IV consultation with the U.S., the International Monetary Fund explained:

    Per capita health spending in the United States is the highest in the OECD, and is still rising. U.S. health spending represents over 15percentof GDP, compared to less than 10 percent in the G-6 group, and grew by about 5 percent a year in real terms over 2000-06 compared with 3 ½ percent in G-6. Without major reform, the Council of Economic Adviser project that health care’s share of GDP will continue to rise rapidly, reaching around 28 percent of GDP in 2030 and 34 percent in 2040 (15 percent of GDP accounted by Medicare and Medicaid). Despite the large spending, health outcomes in the United States are less favorable than in many OECD countries.

    In my opinion, the issue over Medicare reimbursements is an early litmus test as to whether the special interest appetite for taxpayer financing will take precedence over fiscal discipline. If Congress appeases the AMA, it will send a dramatic signal that the very modest cost-savings measures in the recent health care law are not credible. Moreover, it will send a worrisome signal that Congress is not capable of making the even tougher decisions that will be necessary for the U.S. to return to a fiscally sustainable path. In the long-term, fiscal sustainability will depend on far-reaching health care reform that addresses that industry’s chronic excessive cost growth issue.

    Although I had supported easing the transition on Medicare payments, but only if it were fully funded by offsetting spending reductions and/or tax hikes, this salvo fired by the AMA leads me to believe that in the larger interest of moving toward credible fiscal consolidation, the far better approach would be for Congress to draw the line and reject any changes to Medicare payments. Such payments per patient have exploded by more than 67% since 2001.

    In the long-run, Congress will need to spend less than it would otherwise under base law. Transferring spending from one sector to another is a much weaker approach, as it indicates that Congress lacks the ability to actually rein in spending.

    Unfortunately, as government has typically demonstrated a bias toward accommodation, my guess is that Congress will cave in to the AMA’s pressure. That development will likely embolden other special interest groups to seek increased taxpayer payments, even as the nation’s debt continues to climb and its long-term fiscal imbalances remain yet to be addressed.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  8. #38
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I do understand that, but the largest contributing factor in increasing the life expectancy of the human race, was not medical care but rather was access to enough food, bar none.

    Point is with have other factors effecting our population besides medical care, if it were UHC, that was the main driver in increased life expectancy, then why does Switzerland have higher life expectancy when they are an insurance based system?
    i'm confused. my argument is that access to healthcare increases life expectancy. the swiss have a higher life expectancy because they ALL have access to healthcare.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  9. #39
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Found it. Don threads should almost be required reading:
    I guess that alludes to my first point, doesn't really matter that we can or can't do it, that's really the easy part.
    The hard part is our politicians controlling it in a fair and just manner, they won't, they'll cave to special interest pressures.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  10. #40
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    i'm confused. my argument is that access to healthcare increases life expectancy. the swiss have a higher life expectancy because they ALL have access to healthcare.
    I understand that having access can increase life expectancy, but the point is that UHC doesn't automatically increase life expectancy when there are other factors in play.

    Medical care isn't as large an influence as you may believe it to be.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 03-16-11 at 04:06 PM. Reason: typo
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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