View Poll Results: Do You Support a Single Payer Health Care System?

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  • Yes

    39 39.39%
  • No

    54 54.55%
  • Maybe

    6 6.06%
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Thread: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

  1. #21
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Yes, I do.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

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  2. #22
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Yes. 10 characters.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  3. #23
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    According to most studies I have seen, from a value-add perspective, most company processes are somewhere in he range of 90 to 95% wasteful. This is a result I have seen over and over with a lean analysis. Its not just government that is wasteful.
    Not trying to be argumentative, but I'm calling bs on that.

    Even though most/all businesses can be/are wasteful (there is nothing that is perfectly efficient), being wasteful in the 90-95% range makes no sense at all.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  4. #24
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    We spend twice as much, per capita, as people in european countries with single payer systems.

    Per Capita Health Expenditures by Country, 2007 — Infoplease.com

    And yet, our life expectancy is less:

    List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    And, our infant mortality rates are worse:

    List of countries by infant mortality rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So, we're paying twice as much to get half as much. In what world is that a good deal?

    Perhaps if we stopped subsidizing insurance companies, and the dollars went directly to healthcare providers, we'd be in a better place (aka the place that the rest of the civilized west has already located).

    If you've been to an ER in the last 12 months (and I have been, twice, i have two teenagers), you would understand already that our current system is broken and unsustainable. I know that change is terrifying. But, exactly how much worse do you think it can get?
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 03-16-11 at 02:43 PM.

  5. #25
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    We spend twice as much, per capita, as people in european countries with single payer systems.

    Per Capita Health Expenditures by Country, 2007 — Infoplease.com

    And yet, our life expectancy is less:

    List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    And, our infant mortality rates are worse:

    List of countries by infant mortality rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So, we're paying twice as much to get half as much. In what world is that a good deal?

    Perhaps if we stopped subsidizing insurance companies, and the dollars went directly to healthcare providers, we'd be in a better place (aka the place that the rest of the civilized west has already located).

    If you've been to an ER in the last 12 months (and I have been, twice, i have two teenagers), you would understand already that our current system is broken and unsustainable. I know that change is terrifying. But, exactly how much worse do you think it can get?
    Graphs/charts are always more fun:



    We spend much more and get mediocre results...how sad is that.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 03-16-11 at 02:46 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  6. #26
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Just 2 of several experiences with the current system:

    1) To cover our family I needed to continue my retiree insurance and my wife had to pick up insurance at her work for the whole family; therefore, I was covered by two companies. Bad plan, but the only way to insure our son. I fell and hit my head. 11 staples, CT scan etc. Both claimed that the other insurance was primary. Neither was covered by state law in the state we were in. Both claimed that the other agreed that it was primary. I started keeping a record of the calls. I spent more than 40 hours getting the insurance companies to pay. Payment was so late that it was miss-recorded at one provider and they sold the account to a collection agency.
    2) My son ended up in the ER and they attempted to take x-rays, i.e. they were ordered, but the equipment didn’t work and he was transported to another ER where the x-rays were done. The first ER billed for the x-rays that were not done. We could not correct the billing with the ER, no process at the hospital for that. So we informed our insurance that the x-ray billing was an error and to straighten it out with the ER. The insurance company simply didn’t pay, made no calls, took no action. Several months later the billing started from a collection company. Now, a decade later we owe thousands.

    I’ve got more to report.

  7. #27
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    We spend twice as much, per capita, as people in european countries with single payer systems.

    Per Capita Health Expenditures by Country, 2007 — Infoplease.com
    That is going to be prevalent in any third party payment system where the price of services rendered is not met by the consumer directly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    For reasons completely unrelated to medical care, can't believe this myth is still running around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Again, the primary driver of this is not related to our medical care system directly, as we already have UHC for pregnant women and children.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  8. #28
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    That is going to be prevalent in any third party payment system where the price of services rendered is not met by the consumer directly.



    For reasons completely unrelated to medical care, can't believe this myth is still running around.



    Again, the primary driver of this is not related to our medical care system directly, as we already have UHC for pregnant women and children.
    Could you please dispel this myth then?
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  9. #29
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Could you please dispel this myth then?
    Absolutely.
    Medical care is not related to our life expectancy issues, as we have a type of UHC already, for elderly people and we go to great lengths to keep them alive, that is one of the primary drivers of medical care cost inflation.

    Not only that but our racial and immigration demographics are completely different from those of other nations, we have a significant presence of immigrants from 3rd world nations, that never received any medical care and most likely did not have adequate childhood nutrition in their early years.

    Add in to that the cultural practices of all our varied subculture groups and we're bound to have a lesser life expectancy, UHC or not.

    Medical care is but a tiny piece of that puzzle.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  10. #30
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    I checked "no." I meant "yes". Oops.

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