View Poll Results: Do You Support a Single Payer Health Care System?

Voters
99. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    39 39.39%
  • No

    54 54.55%
  • Maybe

    6 6.06%
Page 22 of 28 FirstFirst ... 122021222324 ... LastLast
Results 211 to 220 of 280

Thread: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

  1. #211
    Pragmatic Idealist
    upsideguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Rocky Mtn. High
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    10,095

    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    why do socialists constantly whine about a proper government function when its the improper government activities that cost the most money? and yes people like you need to have your taxes raised. the rich already pay too much
    Interesting. First, the only consistent whining I have ever seen on this board has been from you about paying your taxes.

    As a point of reference, I have, for most of the past decade, paid taxes at the highest rates. I never once whined about the taxes I paid, but instead was very much in touch with how incredibly blessed I was to enjoy the take home pay I did. You see, I believe one's circumstance are far more about God's blessing than about personal accomplishment. I am just not that arrogant.

    As to raising my taxes now, rest assured that ain't going to happen. I am not taxable, nor do you want me to be. I am in the middle of a start-up, financed by my own money. As a start-up just finishing its first year, I lost quite a bit of money, which puts me in the sub-basement of income taxes. In the process, I created 35 jobs last year (and what was your contribution to our economy? probably not much) Sorry, people that our blessed yet complain incessantly about the consequences of that blessing, and then have the arrogance to suggest that they are somehow better than their fellowman because of their blessing.... well, with me, they are the pond scum of our society.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 03-20-11 at 11:08 PM.

  2. #212
    Pragmatic Idealist
    upsideguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Rocky Mtn. High
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    10,095

    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    why do socialists constantly whine about a proper government function when its the improper government activities that cost the most money? and yes people like you need to have your taxes raised. the rich already pay too much
    Um, starting wars in foreign lands is a proper government but providing for the welfare of our citizens is not? Sorry, but I think its a much bigger stretch to say that foreign adventures are covered under "common defense" but creating a universal healthcare system is not "promoting the general welfare." Remember, most of the drafters of the consistution were against the idea of a standing army.

  3. #213
    Pragmatic Idealist
    upsideguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Rocky Mtn. High
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    10,095

    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Sure you can, you can stop treating 70+ year olds for diseases, when they're going to die soon anyway.
    That's cost effective.
    Ah, death panels..... Wow, you have opened my eyes... all last summer when Sarah Palin was going on and on about death panels, I thought she was trying to frighten people to turn them against healthcare reform, when she was really endorsing Obama care because it included these death panels, which you like so much. Or was Sarah critical of Obama because his death panels weren't strong enough. Maybe I still am confused.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    That's bull crap to.
    We've had more and more money coming in, it just keeps getting spent on the least cost effective crap..
    I suggest you study the actual revenues and expenditures at BEA.gov. Revenue fell $500B from 2008 to 2009 because of the recession. That is 1/3 of the deficit, and the easiest thing to fix. I will post the charts if you don't know where to find them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    You said,

    What you posted was not proof at all, it was life expectancy, a number that is not primarily determined by medical care.
    Your comparison is invalid, because it is framing an argument based on fiction, a falsity or lie.
    Offer a fact based argument, if you have one beyond the emotional "America is #1 at everything, damnit." There is no lie in the numbers, they are widely available on the internet. Start with the table on the bottom of the page per this link:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada

    Life expectancy has little to do with medical care? Are you serious? Here is something I found quickly on the subject without much research. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12406460. Kindly offer a compelling counter argument (supporting that statement, or supporting why the US healthcare system is cost effective) or stand-down. Enough with your intellectual laziness passing something you don't agree with as a lie. A simple "I don't agree" though shallow, is at least more honest.

    The only lie here is the one you keep telling yourself because somehow you think its unpatroitic to be critical of your own country..... nothing is more patroitic than to be critical of your own country, if your heart is that you want it to be the best.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 03-21-11 at 01:36 AM.

  4. #214
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Ah, death panels..... Wow, you have opened my eyes... all last summer when Sarah Palin was going on and on about death panels, I thought she was trying to frighten people to turn them against healthcare reform, when she was really endorsing Obama care because it included these death panels, which you like so much. Or was Sarah critical of Obama because his death panels weren't strong enough. Maybe I still am confused.


    What are you talking about.
    I never said death panels, both you and Catawba brought that nonsense to this.
    They are boards that measure cost effectiveness and sometimes they deny people services, because it isn't cost effective.


    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    I suggest you study the actual revenues and expenditures at BEA.gov. Revenue fell $500B from 2008 to 2009 because of the recession. That is 1/3 of the deficit, and the easiest thing to fix. I will post the charts if you don't know where to find them.
    Aside from the recession, we've had a continuous uptick in revenues and an even large uptick in spending.

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Offer a fact based argument, if you have one beyond the emotional "America is #1 at everything, damnit." There is no lie in the numbers, they are widely available on the internet. Start with the table on the bottom of the page per this link:

    Health care in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Where did I say" America is #1 at everything?"

    Numbers can be used to tell lies.
    Old adage, "There are lies, damn lies and statistics."
    If you'd like to explain what that means I can.


    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Life expectancy has little to do with medical care? Are you serious? Here is something I found quickly on the subject without much research. The contribution of medical care to changing life ... [Soc Sci Med. 2002] - PubMed result. Kindly offer a compelling counter argument (supporting that statement, or supporting why the US healthcare system is cost effective) or stand-down. Enough with your intellectual laziness passing something you don't agree with as a lie. A simple "I don't agree" though shallow, is at least more honest.

    The only lie here is the one you keep telling yourself because somehow you think its unpatroitic to be critical of your own country..... nothing is more patroitic than to be critical of your own country, if your heart is that you want it to be the best.
    Medical care is but 1 part of a huge puzzle that is life expectancy.
    I've gone to great lengths to explain this, if you chose not to listen I can not help you anymore.

    That's great, I already knew that our medical system isn't cost effective.
    We spend to damn much on elderly people, from our UHC system, no less.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  5. #215
    Sage
    Dittohead not!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    The Golden State
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:10 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    41,540

    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post


    What are you talking about.
    I never said death panels, both you and Catawba brought that nonsense to this.
    No, you didn't say anything about death panels, just not providing health care for people over 70. They're all used up by then, after all, aren't likely to contribute to the tribe. Just put them on an ice floe and send it off to sea. God will welcome them home.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  6. #216
    Advisor DontDoIt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Illinois, Land of Liberals
    Last Seen
    11-22-15 @ 12:41 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    391

    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Not entirely a fair comment. The government also runs the most advanced, effective military in the world. The government has also led us to being the worlds foremost power militarily, politically and socially and continues to keep us there. Cynicism is easy, but it's as inaccurate as unbridled optimism.
    How does the governement running an effective military have any relevance toward it being able to effectively run health care, a much more complex subject of matter? Have you not seen the negative impacts that the current entitlements are having on our country? S.S. is supposed to be empty by 2037.
    "It is a sad day in society when people adjust the facts to fit their beliefs, rather than adjust their beliefs to fit the facts."
    Libertarian/Conservative/Christian Beliefs

  7. #217
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by DontDoIt View Post
    How does the governement running an effective military have any relevance toward it being able to effectively run health care, a much more complex subject of matter? Have you not seen the negative impacts that the current entitlements are having on our country? S.S. is supposed to be empty by 2037.

    The problems with Medicaid/Medicare are all due to rising health care cost, not by the management by the government. Both are run with a much lower overhead than in the private sector. SS has been so successful that it has helped fund other spending by the federal government. That theft from SS is the only reason there is shortfall projected in the future. The bright side is that all that needs to be done to make SS solvent again is to raise the FiCA cap.
    Last edited by Catawba; 03-21-11 at 07:12 PM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  8. #218
    Sage
    ksu_aviator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Fort Worth Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    6,680
    Blog Entries
    10

    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The problems with Medicaid/Medicare are all due to rising health care cost, not by the management by the government. Both are run with a much lower overhead than in the private sector. SS has been so successful that it has helped fund other spending by the federal government. That theft from SS is the only reason there is shortfall projected in the future. The bright side is that all that needs to be done to make SS solvent again is to raise the FiCA cap.
    The very fact that the government manages any health care "insurance" plan is exactly why health care costs are rising. It is been widely reported that doctors are turning away Medicare patients because of the low reimbursements. Those loses that other doctors are willing to take get passed on to the rest of the population. Not to mention that people with health care that they perceive to be cheap or free are going to behave differently than those that see health care as expensive. So, Medicare patients go to the doctor more often than necessary because of the costs...or lack there of.

    My solution, ban all health insurance that is anything other major medical or catastrophic insurance (which ever term you prefer).
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  9. #219
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    The very fact that the government manages any health care "insurance" plan is exactly why health care costs are rising. It is been widely reported that doctors are turning away Medicare patients because of the low reimbursements. Those loses that other doctors are willing to take get passed on to the rest of the population. Not to mention that people with health care that they perceive to be cheap or free are going to behave differently than those that see health care as expensive. So, Medicare patients go to the doctor more often than necessary because of the costs...or lack there of.

    My solution, ban all health insurance that is anything other major medical or catastrophic insurance (which ever term you prefer).

    So your complaint is our old people are too healthy? See Libertarian party, third door down on the right.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #220
    Dungeon Master
    anti socialist

    X Factor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Texas Proud
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 04:24 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    44,721

    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    No, you didn't say anything about death panels, just not providing health care for people over 70. They're all used up by then, after all, aren't likely to contribute to the tribe. Just put them on an ice floe and send it off to sea. God will welcome them home.
    What you're not getting is that it's the single payer system that will more likely screw the elderly.

    The study, carried out by the National Cancer Intelligence Network (NCIN), concluded that there was a tendency within parts of the NHS to view older patients as being inappropriate for surgery.
    Mick Peake, who led the study, told the paper that the report's findings highlighted why England's cancer survival rates are not as good as many other countries.
    He said that a decline in operations amongst the middle aged were a cause for concern.
    Dr Peake, who is based at Glenfield Hospital, Leicester, said: "There are clearly places where the teams are just looking at the patients and saying ‘no’. They sit there like in the arena in the Colosseum and it’s thumbs up or thumbs down.”
    Middle-aged 'being denied cancer surgery' - Telegraph
    Last edited by X Factor; 03-21-11 at 09:25 PM.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mahatma Gandhi


Page 22 of 28 FirstFirst ... 122021222324 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •