View Poll Results: Do You Support a Single Payer Health Care System?

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  • Yes

    39 39.39%
  • No

    54 54.55%
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Thread: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

  1. #181
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    It can if we make it more cost effective and efficient. With UHC the cost of profit does not factor, as it is a service and not a for profit enterprise. Even so, we could allow states to manage their own healthcare system if we had to. A large part of the demand is people coming in for routine physical maintenance, something that doesn't necessarily require an MD. Certain states and countries allow clinical pharmacists to see patients and write prescription for maintenance drugs while MDs can use their time in more serious areas (like the ER or complicated diagnosis). There are cost cutting measures that we can take, taking profit out of the equation can lower costs, and it is feasible.
    See, what you all are overlooking is that profit is an excellent motivator for innovation. If you take profit out of health care, what is the incentive to develop continually better and cutting edge treatments? You complain of the cost of health care in the US. Part of that is the luxury of having the most advanced technology pretty much readily available. Why do you think people travel to the US from all over the world to get care here that they couldn't in their own countries?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Gosh, is it Christmas already?
    When did Christmas colors become black, blue and red?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    That's rather an unproveable point, as no two UHC systems are the same, and no two countries are the same, so comparing current existing systems is apples and oranges at the least, and frogs and Pluto at the most.
    And yet people are comparing the US system to other countries and using those comparison's to argue for single-payer.
    Last edited by X Factor; 03-19-11 at 03:50 PM.
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  2. #182
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    An analogy I just thought of.....Our new health care bill is similar to the US postal service with its competition from United Parcel and FedX.All three of these are lean and competitive.
    Our health care can be the same, private health care can be equally competitive, right now, its very wasteful.
    I've always liked that analogy. Here's what Obama said during the debate;

    [I]f the private insurance companies are providing a good bargain, and if the public option has to be self-sustaining -- meaning taxpayers aren't subsidizing it, but it has to run on charging premiums and providing good services and a good network of doctors, just like any other private insurer would do -- then I think private insurers should be able to compete. They do it all the time. I mean, if you think about -- if you think about it, UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, right? No, they are. It's the Post Office that's always having problems.
    http://www.thenextright.com/michaelt...exusps-analogy

    You have to appreciate his argument. He's using the failures of one government agency to argue in favor of creating another.
    Last edited by X Factor; 03-19-11 at 04:11 PM.
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  3. #183
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Single payer means the government would be the insurer, not private insurance companies like what the Affordable Health Care Act does. Which is nothing more than legislation proposed for years by Republicans and implemented in Massachusetts by Mitt Romney.
    And which is why Mayor Snorkum rejected Romney in 2008 and why the voters rejected Romney then and will continue to do so. No one trusts his sudden conversion from Massachusetts Liberal to faux-American.

  4. #184
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    The United States did, as well as all the other European nations, before the introduction to price and service altering mandates/controls.

    So in other words, none since the failure of the market approach.




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  5. #185
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    And which is why Mayor Snorkum rejected Romney in 2008 and why the voters rejected Romney then and will continue to do so. No one trusts his sudden conversion from Massachusetts Liberal to faux-American.
    If your thoughts speak for more than just yourself, its why the GOP will lose next year. Romney is the best chance they have.
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  6. #186
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by LookingGlass View Post
    Government administered or managed healthcare is essential for moving ahead into the future. If you control people's health, you control their lives. It is an indispensable tool in social engineering and population revisions. Even those against it will see the benefit when everything is in full swing. I don't think Mr. Obama's plan is ill-conceived and mostly unworkable but it is a tiny step in the right direction.
    Oh, the United States is going to move into the future one second at a time, just like every other nation. The question is whether in the future the United States will continue to be a free nation or if it shall be burdened with fascist or socialist medicine.

    Obama Care is the first step towards national serfdom.

    Well, the fourth step, since Social Security, Welfare, and Public Education are in place already.

  7. #187
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    If your thoughts speak for more than just yourself, its why the GOP will lose next year. Romney is the best chance they have.
    Right. Just like when the Left was proclaiming that McCain was the best chance the GOP had while the Right was rejecting that liberal mofo.

    Besides, to all appearances, the Left will be running that incompetent boob who plays golf and goes on vacation while Japan melts down in the middle of the Libyan revolution while the US does not have a passed budget. Giving the likely opposition the GOP faces even a loon like Ron Paul has an excellent chance of winning the election if nominated.
    Last edited by Mayor Snorkum; 03-19-11 at 05:22 PM.

  8. #188
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    Funny how you keep saying "ultimate" solution when it's pretty clear you're simply avoiding the phrase "final solution".
    What would you call it when someone suggest denying medical care to those over 70?

    Also, define, mathematically, your concept of fairness in your use of the phrase "fair share", and then cite the constitutional clause that invalidates the Fourteenth Amendment's stricture that everone be treated equally before the law.
    Fairness is when we are taxed proportional to our wealth. Progressive tax rates were never successfully challengened on Constitutional grounds. They were in effect during the most prosperous 50 year period for the middle class in history.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #189
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    It's the only way we're ever going to control medical costs and lift the burden of providing health care from the employers. It's way past time for the US to join the civilized world and provide universal medical care to every citizen of this great country.
    How to control medical costs in the real world.

    1) Deny medical services to all attorneys representing plaintiffs in medical malpractice suits who claim more than 5% of the award fee.

    2) Make the patient pay for his care, not a third party. Patients know what care they recieve and are reluctant to waste their money unnecessarily. Generally an agency that doesn't track closely the claims of the medical providers and who can raise money simply by waving a gun around and demanding higher taxes doesn't pay careful attention to detailed expenditure lists.

    3) Allow competition in the medical and insurance market places.

  10. #190
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    What would you call it when someone suggest denying medical care to those over 70?
    It's rationing, something Obama Care does, as must all government medical plans.

    The issue wasn't my objection to the process, it was scorn as your cowardice in avoiding the appropriate label.

    When people pay for their own medical care, rationing is no longer an issue and that whole line of argument becomes irrelevant.

    Fairness is when we are taxed proportional to our wealth.
    Exactly.

    A person making 25,000 dollars a year pays $2,500, and a person making $2,500,000 pays $250,000 dollars. Both pay 10%, and hence both are paying the as proportional tax.

    Perhaps you should learn what the word "proportionate" means? Oh, never mind, you were just instructed.

    Progressive tax rates were never successfully challengened on Constitutional grounds.
    So? That doesn't mean they're not unconstitutiona. Just in case you missed it, the courts in the United States are not politically unbiased. Just ask yourself how the Brown v Board of Education decision came about. That's right, it came about because the courts decided it was politically correct to reverse that earlier decision, Plessy v Fergusson, which was also based on the politics of the time.

    That any particular court rules something is or is not Constitutional does not in fact mean the law is consistent with the Constititution. The courts have ruled that DUI roadblocks can stop any and every person travelling past a particular point without regards to probable cause and every person trapped in that roadblock can be cited for any infraction or arrested for any crime the police uncover, even though the Fourth Amendment demands the existence of probable cause before the police can stop anyone. Clearly unconstitutional, yet the corrupt courts allow it.

    That the courts allow unfair taxation that punishes the successful does not mean the Constitution allows it, it means the courts aren't doing their job.

    You're going to disagree with that and yet somewhere on this forum there is most likely posts from you railing against the recent USSC decision in Citizens United v Federal Election Commission or the Bush v Gore decision.

    They were in effect during the most prosperous 50 year period for the middle class in history.
    And, naturally, the most propserous years of US history were not prosperous because the government was stealing all that money from the people who created the wealth, the US was properous in spite of that taxation which impeded growth. The US was prosperous in the Post-War economy for one reason and one reason only:

    The United States was the only industrialized nation in the world with intact factories. The United States made a booming business selling other nations finished goods and tools and raw materials their foolish lust for war had destroyed in their own countries. Who couldn't make money in an environment like that?

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