View Poll Results: Do You Support a Single Payer Health Care System?

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  • Yes

    39 39.39%
  • No

    54 54.55%
  • Maybe

    6 6.06%
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Thread: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

  1. #161
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Because every other nation on Earth has a universal care system, all of them pay much less per capita than we do, and the modern nations have better outcomes. That's why.
    Better outcomes? You mean forcing women with breast tumors to wait for treatment and thus dying is a better outcome?

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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    Better outcomes? You mean forcing women with breast tumors to wait for treatment and thus dying is a better outcome?
    Sure. It's possible that a miracle will happen and the tumor will complete disappear on it's own.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Have you not heard of cost effective treatment?

    What i suggested goes a bit to far I'll admit, but that's (kind of) what will happen if we get a government paid system.
    When the same entity collects taxes from a person as determines the suitably cost effective treatment for a patient, that entity, by the nature of the bureaucratic beast, is going to come to the decision that at some point the tax on a man's estate brings more value to the bureaucracy than his expected future earnings less the expense of treating his medical problems.

    Bean counters don't care about beans, something the Left would do well to finally learn.
    Last edited by Mayor Snorkum; 03-19-11 at 09:21 AM.

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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Sure. It's possible that a miracle will happen and the tumor will complete disappear on it's own.
    Some women do survive that way. If Mayor Snorkum recalls a biography he read a two decades ago, the wife of Sam Houston had a problem like that but didn't die from it.

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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I prefer to once again make the wealthy pay their fair share in tax revenues over your ultimate solution!
    Funny how you keep saying "ultimate" solution when it's pretty clear you're simply avoiding the phrase "final solution".

    Also, define, mathematically, your concept of fairness in your use of the phrase "fair share", and then cite the constitutional clause that invalidates the Fourteenth Amendment's stricture that everone be treated equally before the law.

  6. #166
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    False.
    Not every nation has universal health care except us.
    Perhaps not every nation, but every modern industrialized nation. We could compare ourselves to Somalia, perhaps, or Yemen, or Zaire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    True.
    Of those that do, they typically pay less.
    They all pay less, every one. We pay more for health care than any other nation on Earth, period.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    False.
    The U.S. has some of the best cancer survival rates.
    And for many other things, we are right there with the rest of those nations with UHC.
    We are "up there with" some of the modern nations on some things. We are fourth in cancer deaths. Our infant mortality is the highest in the industrialized world. Our life expectancy is the lowest. Most other measures put us somewhere in the middle. We aren't getting much bang for our buck, are we?

    Link to the above figures, in case anyone is interested in facts.
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  7. #167
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Perhaps not every nation, but every modern industrialized nation. We could compare ourselves to Somalia, perhaps, or Yemen, or Zaire.
    Not true at all.
    Germany does not have universal health care, yet they have high results.
    They only cover 90% of their population with an insurance based scheme.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    They all pay less, every one. We pay more for health care than any other nation on Earth, period.
    If you looked at one of my earlier figures, we pay around the same, its when you include care for the elderly, which is currently provided in unlimited amounts, that we pay more.

    "The average health care expense in 2002 was $11,089 per year for elderly people but only $3,352 per year for working-age people (ages 19-64)."

    The High Concentration of U.S. Health Care Expenditures


    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    We are "up there with" some of the modern nations on some things. We are fourth in cancer deaths. Our infant mortality is the highest in the industrialized world. Our life expectancy is the lowest. Most other measures put us somewhere in the middle. We aren't getting much bang for our buck, are we?

    Link to the above figures, in case anyone is interested in facts.
    We already provide nearly free coverage to woman who are pregnant and children from birth to 18.
    If we're already providing these things, which mimic UHC, why are we lower?

    The only way UHC can control costs is by reducing services through price fixing or eliminating choices in care.
    They have no magical way of fixing the problem of cost.

    Edit: By the way, many of those numbers are not attributable to medical care, deaths to diabetes can be fully related to the fact that we are more obese, something that can't be controlled by a medical care system.
    Stop attributing cultural problems to medical care, they are not one in the same.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 03-19-11 at 12:23 PM.
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  8. #168
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Not true at all.
    Germany does not have universal health care, yet they have high results.
    They only cover 90% of their population with an insurance based scheme.
    Gosh, only 90%. What does the other 10% do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    If you looked at one of my earlier figures, we pay around the same, its when you include care for the elderly, which is currently provided in unlimited amounts, that we pay more.

    "The average health care expense in 2002 was $11,089 per year for elderly people but only $3,352 per year for working-age people (ages 19-64)."

    The High Concentration of U.S. Health Care Expenditures
    Well, duh! Older people cost more in health care than younger people do. They don't run as fast on average, either. So, is your solution to put the elderly on an ice floe and push it out to sea, or what? I did notice a post suggesting that people over 70 not be given health care, but thought it had to be satire. I suppose that really is your plan.

    Oh, and did you notice my link to actual per capita costs? Those in the US are higher than anywhere else. Of course, if you just shoot everyone when they reach 70, you could save a ton of money. Maybe we could execute people with long term health issues as well. Sure, that's the solution, sure. The final solution.

    But, those other nations, the ones with lower health care costs, do provide care for seniors as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    We already provide nearly free coverage to woman who are pregnant and children from birth to 18.
    If we're already providing these things, which mimic UHC, why are we lower?
    Because you're just making stuff up out of thin air. Try looking at the facts instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    The only way UHC can control costs is by reducing services through price fixing or eliminating choices in care.
    They have no magical way of fixing the problem of cost.
    Hint: efficiency. Look it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Edit: By the way, many of those numbers are not attributable to medical care, deaths to diabetes can be fully related to the fact that we are more obese, something that can't be controlled by a medical care system.
    Stop attributing cultural problems to medical care, they are not one in the same.
    Is infant mortality a cultural problem in your opinion, then? Maybe other nations populations just value babies more than we do.
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Gosh, only 90%. What does the other 10% do?
    The same thing our approximate 10% do.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Well, duh! Older people cost more in health care than younger people do. They don't run as fast on average, either. So, is your solution to put the elderly on an ice floe and push it out to sea, or what? I did notice a post suggesting that people over 70 not be given health care, but thought it had to be satire. I suppose that really is your plan.

    Oh, and did you notice my link to actual per capita costs? Those in the US are higher than anywhere else. Of course, if you just shoot everyone when they reach 70, you could save a ton of money. Maybe we could execute people with long term health issues as well. Sure, that's the solution, sure. The final solution.

    But, those other nations, the ones with lower health care costs, do provide care for seniors as well.
    Not at the same level as medicare does, but that is ending anyway.

    You can't give everyone unlimited access to medical care.
    Swapping to a full, single payer model will have results you didn't expect.
    With budget cuts already looming, your medical care will be the first to be slashed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Because you're just making stuff up out of thin air. Try looking at the facts instead.
    So we don't have pregnancy Medicaid, nor Medicaid for children?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Hint: efficiency. Look it up.
    That's bunk, they cut costs by reducing services and price fixing, which has the secondary effect of reducing services.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Is infant mortality a cultural problem in your opinion, then? Maybe other nations populations just value babies more than we do.
    It certainly can be.
    What is our rates of drug usage for pregnant women, nutrition for children (or pregnant mothers) and the myriad of other factors that are in play with infant mortality?

    Only the most foolish believe that all health related statistics come from poor medical care.
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    Re: Are You in Favor of a Single Payer Health Care System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Holy ****, did you not understand what he said, or are you intentionally being misleading. Conyers and Kucinich discussed opposing the bill to fight for single payer, which they(and the website you link to) support, but decided to support the bill, largely for getting rid of pre-existing conditions as a reason to deny coverage.

    They(meaning Conyers and Kucinich) will attempt to use the bill as a platform to work towards single payer, but that is not what the bill was designed as. It is also not a direct step towards single payer, and in fact, as he comments, grows the private insurance industry(the opposite of single payer). He is plotting the strategy for his goal moving forward, not saying that the bill was planned as a stepping stone.
    Obviously Conyer's believes that the health care law is a step toward single payer. Given that Obama has expressed his belief that single payer is the best way to go, why is it so hard to believe that this law was intended to be a platform, or a step toward single payer?
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