View Poll Results: If you support workers ability to collectively bargain, what do you support?

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  • Workers have to join a specific union in order to get a job.

    8 11.27%
  • Workers have to join any workers union in order to get a job.

    4 5.63%
  • Workers don't have to join a union in order to get a job

    38 53.52%
  • Workers have to pay union dues in order to get a job.

    11 15.49%
  • Workers do not have to pay union dues in order to get a job.

    30 42.25%
  • Workers can form a different union if they do not like the unions that are avaliable.

    28 39.44%
  • Votes to join a union or other union related votes not being anonymous.

    3 4.23%
  • Votes to join a union or other union related votes being anonymous.

    33 46.48%
  • other.

    9 12.68%
  • I oppose unions.(please specify if it's all unions or just public sector unions you oppose).

    29 40.85%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?kkkkkkk

  1. #31
    Shankmasta Killa
    TacticalEvilDan's Avatar
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    Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Can you provide more information on this? Where in collective bargaining has the local government fought the public unions when safety was at hand? There may be isolated incidents where police want new bullet proof vests every year, but are there examples of local or state governments denying cops or firefighters safety equipment in collective bargaining?
    Sure. I can pull from my father's experience as a Sheriff's deputy.

    The county where he worked for 30 years or so developed a retention problem over time, based on a couple of factors. First, they didn't keep up with surrounding counties on the retirement package they offered -- I don't remember the exact numbers, but it came down to how many years you had to put in before you could retire and get a pension, and the fact that our county was requiring a longer service than other counties in the area. Second, the schedule they required deputies to work was 6-2/6-3 -- 6 days on, 2 days off, 6 days on, 3 days off.

    The end result was that the young guys who got hired on and who would ostensibly be replacing guys like my dad spent a couple years in our county getting experience and then got a job in a county with a better package and shift requirements. My dad, for a long time, was pulling extra half shifts and doubles because they were short-handed. The overtime was profitable I guess, but it was a real safety issue -- third shifts during the week, which is primarily what my dad worked, had all of 3 deputies for the entire county. If you got into trouble, backup could be as far off as 20 minutes, and if they were pulling a double they wouldn't be as sharp as you needed them to be when they showed up. This is exacerbated by the fact that, unlike the state police, deputies rode 1 to a car during the overnights, whereas the state cops always rode 2 to a car.

    I think they've started to get the retention problem under control because the union negotiated a better package, but I remember it being a real issue throughout my childhood. The job really wore my old man out because they couldn't keep enough guys on to reliably cover the county.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  2. #32
    Educator a777pilot's Avatar
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    Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

    I oppose public sector unions.
    I came into this world fighting, screaming and covered in someone else's blood. I have no problem going out the same way.

  3. #33
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    Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

    With the recall against Walker utterly failing I decided to resurrect this poll instead of doing another.No sense in having a couple or more of the same poll.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  4. #34
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    Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

    Why would anyone who supports collective bargaining oppose unions? It's illogical.
    Don't work out, work in.

    Never eat anything that's served in a bucket.

  5. #35
    Educator AreteCourage's Avatar
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    Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

    I happen to be against Public Sector Unions as they take the taxpayers money. Private Unions are a different thing. I encourage workers to form unions to make sure that hours don't go overboard, safety issues remain a top priority, and wages don't dip to minimum wage levels. Unions shouldn't have a voice in politics. Unions shouldn't demand outrageous wages.

    Never should ANYONE ever be required to join a union upon getting a job. That should always be the choice of the worker.
    Libertarian and Atheist...wow I'm a hated man.

  6. #36
    Sometimes wrong

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    Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I chose several of the above options, mostly relating to the fact that I'm not a fan of union shop.

    I am also not a fan of unions being powerful enough to buy off government officials -- but then again, I'm also not a fan of anyone being able to buy off government officials.

    I also believe that governments should not be able to use the force of law to break contracts they have entered into with unions.
    I disagree with your last statement. No gov't official should have the right for "forever" promises in any contract. If we the sheeple can not "freeze" our social security benefit age then NO gov't employee has any "super right" to first dibs on my tax money EVER. Just because some politician got elected 20 years ago and made a moronic promise in a pension plan does not make it irrevokable or forever binding. Far too many wish to forget that "our" SS "trust me" accounts are full of IOUs just as the union pension funds are, yet that is tinkered with constantly. I am sick of gov't employees talking of all these "rights" that they have that do not apply to the 95% that are constantly taxed to pay them.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  7. #37
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

    1) a private employer should be able to ban or allow unions

    2) a private employer can make his business an open shop, a closed shop or an agency shop

    3) If you don't like the employer's arrangement don't work there

    4) Public sector unions should be banned

  8. #38
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    Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    1) a private employer should be able to ban or allow unions

    2) a private employer can make his business an open shop, a closed shop or an agency shop

    3) If you don't like the employer's arrangement don't work there

    4) Public sector unions should be banned
    In other words, there should be no unions. Historically, how has that worked out for workers?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #39
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    Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Yes that's why I'm on the fence: the issue of free-ridership. However, in practical terms how can you make an individual worker not benefit from improved or safer working conditions?
    Same here.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #40
    Guru

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    Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

    China has had a growth rate over 5 percent for quite some time now.

    Obviously we should look at them regarding union laws.

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