View Poll Results: If you support workers ability to collectively bargain, what do you support?

Voters
71. You may not vote on this poll
  • Workers have to join a specific union in order to get a job.

    8 11.27%
  • Workers have to join any workers union in order to get a job.

    4 5.63%
  • Workers don't have to join a union in order to get a job

    38 53.52%
  • Workers have to pay union dues in order to get a job.

    11 15.49%
  • Workers do not have to pay union dues in order to get a job.

    30 42.25%
  • Workers can form a different union if they do not like the unions that are avaliable.

    28 39.44%
  • Votes to join a union or other union related votes not being anonymous.

    3 4.23%
  • Votes to join a union or other union related votes being anonymous.

    33 46.48%
  • other.

    9 12.68%
  • I oppose unions.(please specify if it's all unions or just public sector unions you oppose).

    29 40.85%
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Thread: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?kkkkkkk

  1. #21
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    Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I disagree. Some public unions represent people we hire to go into harm's way. I don't think there's anything wrong with them getting together to ensure their interests are protected.
    It isn't a matter of protecting their interests, is it? It's a matter of getting all they can extort. FWIW, there are private sector jobs that are riskier. Farming is more dangerous than police work.

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    Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    I'm against some unions. The UAW for example is a cancer and was a significant part of the reason why GM and Chrysler went bankrupt. Others I'm more torn about. Teacher's unions do some good things (such as mandated minimum student to teacher ratios) and some bad (hiring and firing based strictly on seniority for example).

    I do not believe anyone should ever have to join a union or pay union dues to get a job, and I support anonymous votes on union issues so workers can't be intimidated into voting a certain way.
    I am no fan of the UAW and it is the union I twice voted against having represent where I worked, however...

    Blaming the UAW for GM/Chrysler going bankrupt is incredibly incomplete. First, remember that Ford also has UAW but did not go bankrupt. Toyota is not unionized, but had serious problems over the same time period. What caused GM/Chrysler to go bankrupt was a bad economy and very poor management decisions, plus the UAW contract.

    Secondly, you cannot really blame the UAW for the contract. Their job was to get as much as they can for their workers. They succeeded.

    Lastly, realize that pointing the finger to any one or two things as the reason a company the size of GM or Chrysler goes bankrupt is vastly oversimplifying things. This post vastly oversimplifies things. Details like problems with tier 1 and 2 suppliers, snowballing negative press, and many many other things played significant roles in GM and Chrysler going bankrupt. Blaming the UAW, even as "a significant reason" is simply looking for scapegoats and not looking at the real situation.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  3. #23
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    Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Couldn't have anything to do with the crap cars they were designing, could it? What did the UAW do to make the Chrysler 200 a pale imitation of a Mercedes? Or a Chevrolet a re-badged Korean Daewoo? I know the big corporations are desperate to find someone to pin their monumental failures on, but the unions aren't it. Poor management, profit milking, lack of investment in product development, entrenched lock-step relations with the oil industry and poor competitor monitoring are the reasons the US motor manufacturers went belly-up. Don't blame it on the unions just because it's the fashionable thing to do these days - blame the wrongs of the world on the unions, not on crap capitalists.
    I didn't say it was completely the union's fault, the companies themselves certainly had their share of responsibility, but the unions were at least partially to blame.
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  4. #24
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    Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I am no fan of the UAW and it is the union I twice voted against having represent where I worked, however...

    Blaming the UAW for GM/Chrysler going bankrupt is incredibly incomplete. First, remember that Ford also has UAW but did not go bankrupt. Toyota is not unionized, but had serious problems over the same time period. What caused GM/Chrysler to go bankrupt was a bad economy and very poor management decisions, plus the UAW contract.

    Secondly, you cannot really blame the UAW for the contract. Their job was to get as much as they can for their workers. They succeeded.

    Lastly, realize that pointing the finger to any one or two things as the reason a company the size of GM or Chrysler goes bankrupt is vastly oversimplifying things. This post vastly oversimplifies things. Details like problems with tier 1 and 2 suppliers, snowballing negative press, and many many other things played significant roles in GM and Chrysler going bankrupt. Blaming the UAW, even as "a significant reason" is simply looking for scapegoats and not looking at the real situation.
    Trust me, I realize all of this. I work in the automotive industry. To pretend that the UAW doesn't share at least some of the blame though is very naive.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

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    Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Trust me, I realize all of this. I work in the automotive industry. To pretend that the UAW doesn't share at least some of the blame though is very naive.
    I did not say they did not have a share of the blame. However, it is not nearly as big a share as many like to suggest.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  6. #26
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    Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I am no fan of the UAW and it is the union I twice voted against having represent where I worked, however...

    Blaming the UAW for GM/Chrysler going bankrupt is incredibly incomplete. First, remember that Ford also has UAW but did not go bankrupt. Toyota is not unionized, but had serious problems over the same time period. What caused GM/Chrysler to go bankrupt was a bad economy and very poor management decisions, plus the UAW contract.

    Secondly, you cannot really blame the UAW for the contract. Their job was to get as much as they can for their workers. They succeeded.

    Lastly, realize that pointing the finger to any one or two things as the reason a company the size of GM or Chrysler goes bankrupt is vastly oversimplifying things. This post vastly oversimplifies things. Details like problems with tier 1 and 2 suppliers, snowballing negative press, and many many other things played significant roles in GM and Chrysler going bankrupt. Blaming the UAW, even as "a significant reason" is simply looking for scapegoats and not looking at the real situation.
    I blame management for GM and Chrysler problems, they sat on their fat asses when the imports like Toyota ran right past them. They got lazy and complacent in a very competitive world.


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    Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    I blame management for GM and Chrysler problems, they sat on their fat asses when the imports like Toyota ran right past them. They got lazy and complacent in a very competitive world.
    That is equally simplistic if slightly more accurate. What you had was a confluence of events all occurring due to the plunge in the economy, or becoming problems due to the plunge in the economy. While management should have done better, it was not possible to predict all that did happen.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  8. #28
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    Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrickt View Post
    It isn't a matter of protecting their interests, is it? It's a matter of getting all they can extort.
    In some cases, sure it is. That's what any negotiation turns into when one side gets too much influence over the other or gets too much of what they want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrickt View Post
    FWIW, there are private sector jobs that are riskier. Farming is more dangerous than police work.
    Depends on how you define risk and what jurisdiction you're talking about, I guess.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  9. #29
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    Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I disagree. Some public unions represent people we hire to go into harm's way. I don't think there's anything wrong with them getting together to ensure their interests are protected.
    Can you provide more information on this? Where in collective bargaining has the local government fought the public unions when safety was at hand? There may be isolated incidents where police want new bullet proof vests every year, but are there examples of local or state governments denying cops or firefighters safety equipment in collective bargaining?
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  10. #30
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    Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

    I don't think that anyone should be forced to join a union. But the non-union and union workers can have different contracts too. There's no point in the non-union worker deriving the benefit of union resolve without paying into the system. Although that opens the door for certain corporate meddling. You also don't have to pay dues, but if you are in a union you should pay dues to that union. Meaning, you need to pay less you choose not to be in one. You can be from a different union too; though probably you want to belong to the local one since it will be more responsive to your actual needs.
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