View Poll Results: If you support workers ability to collectively bargain, what do you support?

Voters
71. You may not vote on this poll
  • Workers have to join a specific union in order to get a job.

    8 11.27%
  • Workers have to join any workers union in order to get a job.

    4 5.63%
  • Workers don't have to join a union in order to get a job

    38 53.52%
  • Workers have to pay union dues in order to get a job.

    11 15.49%
  • Workers do not have to pay union dues in order to get a job.

    30 42.25%
  • Workers can form a different union if they do not like the unions that are avaliable.

    28 39.44%
  • Votes to join a union or other union related votes not being anonymous.

    3 4.23%
  • Votes to join a union or other union related votes being anonymous.

    33 46.48%
  • other.

    9 12.68%
  • I oppose unions.(please specify if it's all unions or just public sector unions you oppose).

    29 40.85%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?kkkkkkk

  1. #91
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    Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    If we are talking about a $30 toilet seat from Home Depot - yup, no need for citizen oversight. If we are talking about one costing tens of thousands of dollars in some government project where other items are similarly priced - perhaps we could use some citizen voting on such things.

    All I am trying to do is point out to you how your same argument can also apply to any taxpayer dollar expenditures of sizable substance.
    Yeah, I get it. I just don't agree. And, of course, you won't argue against my points and tell me why union negotiators on the government side shouldn't have to answer to taxpayers in the form of being elected; and why union demands / gvmt counters shouldn't be made public.

    But that's okay.
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  2. #92
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    Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I assume I've shocked you?

    Reason for outlawing:

    Private Sector unions are controlled by the marketplace. If a company doesn't have the money? The union doesn't get what it wants. Private Sector unions operate from the environment that if the government doesn't have the money? They can just raise taxes to get the money.
    What's this with the fantasy that the government is some unrestricted entity while the corporations are limited by the market? Somebody on the other side in this imaginary world could say also that the corporations could just raise prices to get the money. In the real world, governments are under taxpayer pressure and re-election pressure. Neither sector is uninhibited. Why does government waste so much then? For the same reason corporations waste so much. Incompetence.

    As for the corporations being restricted because it's their money to lose, the government CEOs not only can lose their jobs but even until then, they can lose the money they need for projects that might get them re-elected if they spend too freely on other divisions such as education. If hiring more police will get them re-elected, they are not going to waste the money to do so on paying teachers more. If, on the other hand, parents angry at schools being closed blamed the mayor for hard-line negotiating instead of the teachers, he's got to give the teachers what they feel they deserve. So the public already has direct control on the outcome of negotiations.
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
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  3. #93
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    Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It is ironic that when some of us on the left call for more citizen involvement in the decisions and actions of government we are chastised and berated with the heavy reminder that WE ARE NOT A DEMOCRACY.... WE ARE A REPUBLIC.

    If we are going to elect negotiators for contracts with pubic worker unions, do we also have public referendums on the other activities of government which spend tax payer dollars like the granting of contracts?

    I would very much like to have a vote on defense contracts.
    The mantra that we are a republic is only a self-empowering claim by constitution-nazis.
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
    We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
    Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

  4. #94
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    Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Yeah, I get it. I just don't agree. And, of course, you won't argue against my points and tell me why union negotiators on the government side shouldn't have to answer to taxpayers in the form of being elected; and why union demands / gvmt counters shouldn't be made public.

    But that's okay.
    But I think they do have to answer to the citizenry through regular school board elections. That is has it always has been.
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    Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by PrometheusBound View Post
    The mantra that we are a republic is only a self-empowering claim by constitution-nazis.
    That is why I clarified that we are actually a democratic republic with a Constitution.
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  6. #96
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    Re: Those who support workers ability to collectively bargain what do you support?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD
    Public sector unions should be against the law. In lieu of that, all public sector union negotiations should go on in the public eye. And negotiators on the taxpayer side should be elected by the people.
    There are all sorts of problems putting public sector unions against the law, it gives the public sector an unfair competative advantage, and it basically makes public sector workers wage slaves.

    I agree that public sector union negotiations should be public and that things should be more democratic.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD
    I would very much like to have a vote on defense contracts.
    I second and third that ....

    Defense contracts work within budgets. Public Sector union negotiators say, "Budgets be damned. We want what we want when we want it."
    Thats bull**** and you know it, defence contractors can ask whatever they'll get it, lots of people in the defense department go and work for defence contractors after and get big big pay checks, meaning they have an incentive to give them whatever they want (city officials don't go on to work for the high school and make a huge paycheck), also politically its easier to spend more on the military.

    Military spending is almost NEVER budgeted, look at the Iraq war ... Anyway, I agreed with your first point, but if your not gonna sound rediculously hypocritical you have to apply it to military spending FIRST AND FORMOST.

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