View Poll Results: Should there be a public vote on employee compensation

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17. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    12 70.59%
  • No

    5 29.41%
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Thread: Voting on Compensation

  1. #21
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    Re: Voting on Compensation

    Two strange, unknown things
    fairness
    equality
    We wish to control the masses, the employees, but how about the wealthy elite, the wealthy, who controls them ???
    They surely cannot be trusted to control themselves.
    The wealthy overcharge for their goods and services, this is why they are that way.

  2. #22
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    Re: Voting on Compensation

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    For elected and appointed officials yes voters should vote on their pay. For teachers, secretaries, security guards, police,firefighters, janitors and etc should be dictated by what ever the fair market wage is for those workers.
    Again, I agree.
    It is possible for a lib and a con to agree on many things.
    For centuries, our elected officials have been able to vote themselves raises, maybe at one time this concept worked, but not today, they have become too greedy...Its not the base salaries as much as the related costs(healthcare, supporting cast, pensions)..

  3. #23
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    Re: Voting on Compensation

    I don't think so. I doubt voters would put much thought into it. Pay for teachers and other civic employees needs to balance many different concerns that the public is unlikely to become informed upon. Better to have the legislature vote. Presumably the votes are recorded, so the public can correct any improper decisions through elections.

  4. #24
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    Re: Voting on Compensation

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    I am sorry if I wasn't clear. How is the proposal that the Voters should be able to approve or disapprove a proposal for the increase of salary or benefits package to Government Workers reactionary? I mean that such a proposal is a change in status quo and not to a prior state real or imagined but to something more different. Strictly a reactionary would want to go back to the Patronage System that existed before by definition:

    Reactionary - Definition
    I'm aware of the many definitions of reactionary, and I should have been more specific. I meant reactionary as in he is reacting to one problem (the problem of Bell as an example), and wants to apply new rules and legislation on that basis. I feel its comparable to seeing Jared Loughner, and than saying we need to take away guns from the people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    In other words, you want a less democratic process to determine the worth of Government Employees who are being paid by the taxpayers and be judged on what principals? What group would be so unbiased that a "third-party" would give a fair result? And keep in mind with Collective Bargaining it wont have to do with individual merit.
    Collective bargaining would have to go. Lets imagine Wisconsin, and they implement their new bill. Afterwards, I'm sure there is some private school or company out there with the proper background to tell you how much the services provided by the teachers in Wisconsin warrant in terms of compensation. Same with police, firemen, etc. Its not necessarily about getting the cost of those jobs down, honestly that never really seemed to be Walker's goal in this, but it would be more accurate in terms of the fiar market value of the jobs those people have. And screw the unions in there too, they aren't helping anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    This is most certainly true, but this would be a check against a government who gives too lavish a salary to its employees. And one doesn't need to know in detail when the elected officials try to hide an Elephant in a room by putting it under the Rug as it were. Furthermore, people do not put much time in choosing their votes for many reasons one could be that the options are restricted such as no real choice, or that their vote will not count. On the approval of the ballot for wage increases there is at least a clear choice on that even if those voters will not believe their vote will not count.
    I agree that this would serve as an important check on government, but there are probably more effective checks, which don't give voters one more thing to potentially screw up on. I'm pessimistic when it comes to the voters ability to make decisions about government. I trust them as far as getting someone else into office, and thats about it.
    Veni. Vidi. Vici.
    -Gaius Julius Caesar
    The Only Thing to Fear is Fear Itself.
    -Franklin Delano Roosevelt

  5. #25
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    Re: Voting on Compensation

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Two strange, unknown things
    fairness
    equality
    We wish to control the masses, the employees, but how about the wealthy elite, the wealthy, who controls them ???
    They surely cannot be trusted to control themselves.
    The wealthy overcharge for their goods and services, this is why they are that way.
    Mayor Snorkum doesn't understand why you wish to control either the "masses" or anyone else, including those with more money than you can count.

    This thread is about how the public should be able to determine how much compensation public employees should receive. It's been proven, repeatedly, that elected officials are completely corrupt and willing to hand public employee unions any package the union leaders desire in exchange for campaign cash and perks.

    One solution to that problem is to remove the ability of the politician to negotiate wages with unions.

    One aspect of that problem is that the unions deny Americans their freedom of choice to decline union membership in employment. This denial puts hundreds of millions of dollars in union coffers and is used to further the corruption of the political landscape, and often employees forced into unions have to see the money taken from their unwilling hands used to support politicians they do not support. Again, this is corruption at it's worst, and completely against the principles this nation was founded upon.

    There's no need to control the "masses".

    There's no need to control the "rich".

    The ones needeing to be controlled are the politicians who can't be trusted to heed the Constitution.

  6. #26
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    Re: Voting on Compensation

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    I don't think so. I doubt voters would put much thought into it. Pay for teachers and other civic employees needs to balance many different concerns that the public is unlikely to become informed upon. Better to have the legislature vote. Presumably the votes are recorded, so the public can correct any improper decisions through elections.
    THAT's how all the states have gotten into the messes they're in with the unions. It doesn't work.

    Amendments to state constituitons are required to ensure all government employment positions are open to all qualified candidates and union membership should not be a requirement.

    The states have absolutely no business collecting dues for private clubs, and that includes unions. Unions must be responsible for the collection of due from their own members, and must bear the cost of doing so, also.

    Public employees should be as subject to summary dismissal for poor job performance and absenteeism as any employee of any Subway sandwich store.

    In a word, there should be no difference between how a public employee is treated and how a private employee is treated under the law.

  7. #27
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    Re: Voting on Compensation

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    THAT's how all the states have gotten into the messes they're in with the unions. It doesn't work.

    Amendments to state constituitons are required to ensure all government employment positions are open to all qualified candidates and union membership should not be a requirement.

    The states have absolutely no business collecting dues for private clubs, and that includes unions. Unions must be responsible for the collection of due from their own members, and must bear the cost of doing so, also.

    Public employees should be as subject to summary dismissal for poor job performance and absenteeism as any employee of any Subway sandwich store.

    In a word, there should be no difference between how a public employee is treated and how a private employee is treated under the law.
    Fairness
    Equality
    Put all the load on the unions and allow the lawmakers to have millionaire level pensions.....
    Yes may union people are, IMO, overcompensated.
    I suspect many others "work" a 10 hour week but are paid for 40 hours.....
    Too many law-makers do little or nothing.
    But we must cut the union people......

    Enough sarcasm..
    There will always be a need for unions as long as those in power continue with their bad attitudes.

  8. #28
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    Re: Voting on Compensation

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrickt View Post
    I think compensation packages for people working in the government--appointed or elected--should be voted on. Would Bell, California, have been paying city employees $500k if they'd voted? I don't think so. Would bus drivers collect $150k in pay and overtime is there was a vote? I don't think so.

    My personal favorite was the contract that said employees got 30 minutes of overtime if they received a work-related phone call at home. "Hey, Chuck, you going bowling tonight?" "Nah, it's my night to spend all night calling people from work."
    I would prefer it if elected and appointed officials had their pay decided by referendum. However, I think civil servants should have their pay decided by guilds. A guild would set minimum working standards, minimum wages, and contract minimums for a particular industry, but everything else could be decided on a more individual basis.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  9. #29
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    Re: Voting on Compensation

    Article I, Section 6 makes all these notions unconstitutional and moot.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  10. #30
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    Re: Voting on Compensation

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    I would prefer it if elected and appointed officials had their pay decided by referendum. However, I think civil servants should have their pay decided by guilds. A guild would set minimum working standards, minimum wages, and contract minimums for a particular industry, but everything else could be decided on a more individual basis.
    Guilds? Could you explain please?
    Veni. Vidi. Vici.
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