View Poll Results: Should there be a public vote on employee compensation

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  • Yes

    12 70.59%
  • No

    5 29.41%
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Thread: Voting on Compensation

  1. #11
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    Re: Voting on Compensation

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    How is this measure reactionary?
    The OP specifically mentioned the problems of Bell, California. While I agree the problems there are very real, handing the problem off to the laymen would be rash, and ill-advised.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    Do you mean like a super-majority vote would be required or do you have an idea what other method could be used by the politicians?
    I don't see why we can't have a relatively independent third-party come in, appraise the situation, and set compensation levels. It'd take some time, and we'd have to find a group sufficiently objective, but I think that'd warrant a more thorough look than voting on compensation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    The OP mostly deals with issues handled by the States not Federal. I for one do not think a biannual election is sufficient.
    I was referring to voting in its totality. Voting, in its entirety, should require research, analysis, and a good thorough look. Increasing the amount we load doesn't necessarily mean we'll spend more time researching what we're voting about. Further, most people don't do a whole amount of research before voting (as an example, I know people who voted based almost exclusively on race, and gender), and I wouldn't trust the laymen to be able to decide how much, say, teachers earn.
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  2. #12
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    Re: Voting on Compensation

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    The OP specifically mentioned the problems of Bell, California. While I agree the problems there are very real, handing the problem off to the laymen would be rash, and ill-advised.
    I am sorry if I wasn't clear. How is the proposal that the Voters should be able to approve or disapprove a proposal for the increase of salary or benefits package to Government Workers reactionary? I mean that such a proposal is a change in status quo and not to a prior state real or imagined but to something more different. Strictly a reactionary would want to go back to the Patronage System that existed before by definition:

    Reactionary - Definition


    I don't see why we can't have a relatively independent third-party come in, appraise the situation, and set compensation levels. It'd take some time, and we'd have to find a group sufficiently objective, but I think that'd warrant a more thorough look than voting on compensation.
    In other words, you want a less democratic process to determine the worth of Government Employees who are being paid by the taxpayers and be judged on what principals? What group would be so unbiased that a "third-party" would give a fair result? And keep in mind with Collective Bargaining it wont have to do with individual merit.


    I was referring to voting in its totality. Voting, in its entirety, should require research, analysis, and a good thorough look. Increasing the amount we load doesn't necessarily mean we'll spend more time researching what we're voting about. Further, most people don't do a whole amount of research before voting (as an example, I know people who voted based almost exclusively on race, and gender), and I wouldn't trust the laymen to be able to decide how much, say, teachers earn.
    This is most certainly true, but this would be a check against a government who gives too lavish a salary to its employees. And one doesn't need to know in detail when the elected officials try to hide an Elephant in a room by putting it under the Rug as it were. Furthermore, people do not put much time in choosing their votes for many reasons one could be that the options are restricted such as no real choice, or that their vote will not count. On the approval of the ballot for wage increases there is at least a clear choice on that even if those voters will not believe their vote will not count.
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  3. #13
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    Re: Voting on Compensation

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    I am sorry if I wasn't clear. How is the proposal that the Voters should be able to approve or disapprove a proposal for the increase of salary or benefits package to Government Workers reactionary? I mean that such a proposal is a change in status quo and not to a prior state real or imagined but to something more different. Strictly a reactionary would want to go back to the Patronage System that existed before by definition:

    Reactionary - Definition




    In other words, you want a less democratic process to determine the worth of Government Employees who are being paid by the taxpayers and be judged on what principals? What group would be so unbiased that a "third-party" would give a fair result? And keep in mind with Collective Bargaining it wont have to do with individual merit.




    This is most certainly true, but this would be a check against a government who gives too lavish a salary to its employees. And one doesn't need to know in detail when the elected officials try to hide an Elephant in a room by putting it under the Rug as it were. Furthermore, people do not put much time in choosing their votes for many reasons one could be that the options are restricted such as no real choice, or that their vote will not count. On the approval of the ballot for wage increases there is at least a clear choice on that even if those voters will not believe their vote will not count.
    So

    Lets combine this proposal with the elimination of unions

    Is their going to be a vote on each individuals teachers or secretaries compensation?
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    Re: Voting on Compensation

    To be fair cutting the salaries of all Congresspeople would do almost nothing to balance the budget. I'd like to do it on a sieve basis: those who are true to their principles won't mind working for the people on $40,000 a year.

    Then again, they get millions upon millions from big business...

  5. #15
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    Re: Voting on Compensation

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    So

    Lets combine this proposal with the elimination of unions

    Is their going to be a vote on each individuals teachers or secretaries compensation?
    It wasn't my proposal I was responding to Repeter saying it was reactionary and a bad idea. I would agree with the proposal as far as establishing base salary and I believe that any increase over that must be based on the degree the Government Worker goes above the Minimal Standards. Personally, I do not think that teachers in general should be directly employed by the Government. And even if teachers should belong to some sort of organization that has the basic functions of Unions the traditional Union is not appropriate since the instruction of youth cannot be done very successfully as an assembly line model which the traditional Union assumes.
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  6. #16
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    Re: Voting on Compensation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Gein View Post
    Public Union wages have nothing to do with fair market.
    which is why there is no room for them in a market solution

  7. #17
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    Re: Voting on Compensation

    Quote Originally Posted by SirPwn4lot View Post
    To be fair cutting the salaries of all Congresspeople would do almost nothing to balance the budget. I'd like to do it on a sieve basis: those who are true to their principles won't mind working for the people on $40,000 a year.

    Then again, they get millions upon millions from big business...
    simple rule: they get median income for the nation at large, and a housing allowance to let them rent somewhere in DC.

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    Re: Voting on Compensation

    You said it all. Close the thread.

  9. #19
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    Re: Voting on Compensation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Gein View Post
    Public Union wages have nothing to do with fair market.
    Nothing fair about extortion and kickbacks.

  10. #20
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    Re: Voting on Compensation

    answer to poll:

    Yes.

    Caveat:

    Bill presenting compensation legislation must include an abstract that specifies the average compensation per employee and the comparison of that wage with the local population's mean wages for comparable free-market positions, with all data sourced from the census bureau or other reliable origin.

    The politicians have proven they're too corrupt to be allowed to negotiate wages with kickbacking public employee unions.

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