View Poll Results: DO you support the (NLRA) allowing a "closed shop"?

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  • No I do not

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Thread: Do you support (NLRA) allowing "closed shop"?

  1. #51
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    Re: Do you support (NLRA) allowing "closed shop"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baralis View Post
    This question is directed mainly at pro union members. Do you support the National Labor Relations Act which allows unions to "close shop" requiring by law employees to either join the union or pay union fees within 30 days or be fired?


    Personally I feel it is legal extortion and should not be forced nor legal. True a person does not have to accept the job but why should a person be forced to pay to be allowed a job.
    No - I don't support forced union membership or participation.
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    Re: Do you support (NLRA) allowing "closed shop"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    GM did not force the person to join the union, the person voluntarily decided to join the union as a condition of accepting the position to work at GM.

    Right, the same way no one forces anyone to work in a mine without safety regulations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

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  3. #53
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    Re: Do you support (NLRA) allowing "closed shop"?

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    Right, the same way no one forces anyone to work in a mine without safety regulations.
    In the US, people are forced to work at mines with safety regulations. All mines in the US are to follow safety regulations, no choice in the matter. Not all mines are unionized, choice in the matter

    Instead of say a union that I objected to I objected to working for a company that was owned in part by a foreign company/country (say Citgo). If I choose to work for that company I have to accept that it is owed in part by a foriegn governemnt/company. I am not being forced to work for that company as their are other gas retailers/refiners that I can work for. It would be my choice to work for that company despite my objection to the owner of it
    Last edited by Lord Tammerlain; 03-08-11 at 09:23 PM.
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  4. #54
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    Re: Do you support (NLRA) allowing "closed shop"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    In the US, people are forced to work at mines with safety regulations. All mines in the US are to follow safety regulations, no choice in the matter. Not all mines are unionized, choice in the matter
    Because of the law, which can be changed.

    Instead of say a union that I objected to I objected to working for a company that was owned in part by a foreign company/country (say Citgo). If I choose to work for that company I have to accept that it is owed in part by a foriegn governemnt/company. I am not being forced to work for that company as their are other gas retailers/refiners that I can work for. It would be my choice to work for that company despite my objection to the owner of it

    Do foreign owned companies take a cut from your paychecks and lobby for work related policy that you might find contrary to your interest?
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

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    Re: Do you support (NLRA) allowing "closed shop"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Since a union exists to represent the interests of its members, why would it work against those interests, and even if it did try, why would the members go along with it if they didn't agree?
    For the same reason the Democrat leadership and Republican leadership act against the interests of the nation and against the Constitution.

    Because they can get away with it and because it furthers their careers.

    The problem with the altruistic assumption of what you posted is that altruism doesn't exist.

    Greed exists.

    That explains union boss behavior quite well.

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    Re: Do you support (NLRA) allowing "closed shop"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Senority rules were generally put in place to help prevent companies from laying off the more experienced, skillled and generally higher paid employees. Many companies would layoff the expensive workers and replace them with cheaper inexperienced workers when needed.
    Nah.

    Companies, for the most part, don't want to let their best people go. That's where the knowledge is. Unions, however, forced seniority rules to protect the union leadership, since shop stewards and other thug type organizers are typically with the company longer and the company would have to cut deeper to get rid of the cancer if they don't have their freedom to fire at will.

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    Re: Do you support (NLRA) allowing "closed shop"?

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    Because of the law, which can be changed.
    and so can your employement at any specific company



    Do foreign owned companies take a cut from your paychecks and lobby for work related policy that you might find contrary to your interest?
    Darn right it does

    It sends profits derived from my work outside of the country instead of increasing my pay, it also (would if the Can division was large enough) lobby to reduce certain environmental regulations that negatively effect the profits of the company. Given the nature of the business I work in, environemntal regulations are rather strong by the way
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  8. #58
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    Re: Do you support (NLRA) allowing "closed shop"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    and so can your employement at any specific company
    Yeah, or in any industry. So your arguement is the same one that is used against work safety regulations.

    Darn right it does

    It sends profits derived from my work outside of the country instead of increasing my pay, it also (would if the Can division was large enough) lobby to reduce certain environmental regulations that negatively effect the profits of the company. Given the nature of the business I work in, environemntal regulations are rather strong by the way
    And you think you are being reasonable when you equate the companies profit to your paychecks?

    Isn't it good that there are laws that make those company comply with the regulations? Instead of just saying, if you don't like it, work somewhere else?
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

  9. #59
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    Re: Do you support (NLRA) allowing "closed shop"?

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    Yeah, or in any industry. So your arguement is the same one that is used against work safety regulations.
    Not really safety regulations are universal to an industry unionization is not


    And you think you are being reasonable when you equate the companies profit to your paychecks?
    If the complaint is about having to pay union dues reducing my take home pay, or seeing a company take more of the revenues based on my labour as profit yes. Both can negatively effect my financial well being.

    Of course a profitable business is one that stays in business, (a positive if I was working at that company) and unions typically ensure members have a higher compensation rate then non union members in the same industry ( another positive if I was in that union


    Isn't it good that there are laws that make those company comply with the regulations? Instead of just saying, if you don't like it, work somewhere else?
    If I were to apply this to unionization, it would require all companies within an industry to be unionized to be comparable would it not?

    Realistically using safety regulations as an analogy for unionization does not work as one is mandated throughout the various industries, and not optional depending on the workplace. Choosing something that would be specific to some companies within an industry rather then the industry as a whole. Meaning ownership, various policies within the company vs other companies
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    Re: Do you support (NLRA) allowing "closed shop"?

    It is amusing when unions folks want to know what is meant by "pro-union". But, when they say, "Well, if you won't joint he union, go somewhere else," I want to puke. The town I grew up in had two factories, both closed shop. So, all the pro-union folks can get a giggle out of that.

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