View Poll Results: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

Voters
71. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    38 53.52%
  • No

    33 46.48%
Page 8 of 42 FirstFirst ... 67891018 ... LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 420

Thread: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

  1. #71
    Professor

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    MI and AZ
    Last Seen
    03-15-15 @ 01:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    1,581

    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Ah...

    I can kinda see what you're getting at but I don't think it applies here...
    I should proof read better. I got interrupted and just posted.
    I just have experience that I think parallels the 'evolution though and conclusion process' that is this thread.

  2. #72
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by hallam View Post
    Point two onward in your article is the same thing. Again, biology may employ people and create great things. But within a political discussion (which the evolution debate currently is), this is meaningless.
    Biology is not meaningless in a debate about evolution. Evolution is in fact a theory of biology, and thus biology always has weight in the issue. People may want to politicize it, but those are deflections and thus not actually arguments about evolution itself. Biology is very important to the basis of the argument and if one ever wants to intelligently debate evolution, then biology must necessarily be there. I for one don't understand why there is such large resistance to evolution theory. It's the theory which best explains the observables. Hell at base evolution means to change, and we know things have changed. What existed in the past does not exist now and vice versa.

    I do fear that there is an undercurrent of anti-science, anti-intellectualism which is starting to spread across the US. This sort of willful ignorance is not a good thing. Humans never got anywhere by stagnation, we too must evolve.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #73
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Huntsville, AL (USA)
    Last Seen
    12-13-17 @ 10:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    9,766

    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    I think there's room for science and religious theology. Consider the following:

    Biblical scripture teaches that God created man from the dust. Science teaches that this planet was formed from the collection of space debris colliding together and over time molding itself into this big blue ball, that is was once such the collision occurred that carried with it the building blocks - DNA - for life to form on Earth. Until then, science teaches that this planetoid was nothing more than a large piece of hot space junk. The question then becomes how did that single cell organism develop into the countless species of plant and animal life we know today?

    Answer: It evolved...adapted to its surroundings, changing over time. We're still seeing these such changes all around us everyday. They're subtle, i.e., setiments in water as it flows through rivers and streams being deposited in areas where they normally wouldn't have decades or hundreds if not thousands of years before. The Earth's crust shifting, volcanos erupting casting off the primortial soup was call lava which science has shown does reconstitute life.

    It's a cycle, one man can't fully understand in all its detail, but we are learning. We are evolving...every day. But the two answers we may never know are "why" and "how"? Why create man here on this planet were this lifeform (to our knowledge atleast) does not exist elsewhere? And how did we presumably go from what science says is a being from the water to a two-legged creature that walks upright that happens to have a higher plain of deductive reasoning than our nearest primate relative?

    For what it's worth, I just accept it for what it is, count my blessings that I was born human and not an ant or spider and move on. But I thank God for wisemen who are daring enough to challenge what they don't know and are brave enough to seek out answers that stand to benefit all of mankind.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 02-28-11 at 01:26 PM.

  4. #74
    Sage
    scourge99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The Wild West
    Last Seen
    01-27-12 @ 02:50 AM
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    6,233

    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I think there's room for science and religious theology. Consider the following:

    Biblical scripture teaches that God created man from the dust. Science teaches that this planet was formed from the collection of space debris colliding together and over time molding itself into this big blue ball, that is was once such the collision occurred that carried with it the building blocks - DNA - for life to form on Earth. Until then, science teaches that this planetoid was nothing more than a large piece of hot space junk. The question then becomes how did that single cell organism develop into the countless species of plant and animal life we know today?

    Answer: It evolved...adapted to its surroundings, changing over time. We're still seeing these such changes all around us everyday. They're subtle, i.e., setiments in water as it flows through rivers and streams being deposited in areas where they normally wouldn't have decades or hundreds if not thousands of years before. The Earth's crust shifting, volcanos erupting casting off the primortial soup was call lava which science has shown does reconstitute life.

    It's a cycle, one man can't fully understand in all its detail, but we are learning. We are evolving...every day. But the two answers we may never know are "why" and "how"? Why create man here on this planet were this lifeform (to our knowledge atleast) does not exist elsewhere? And how did we presumably go from what science says is a being from the water to a two-legged creature that walks upright that happens to have a higher plain of deductive reasoning than our nearest primate relative?

    For what it's worth, I just accept it for what it is, count my blessings that I was born human and not an ant or spider and move on. But I thank God for wisemen who are daring enough to challenge what they don't know and are brave enough to seek out answers that stand to benefit all of mankind.
    How about instead of starting with a conclusion and looking for evidence to support it, (E.G., that the Bible is true and/or that evolution is true) take an unbiased look at the evidence and see where it leads.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  5. #75
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Huntsville, AL (USA)
    Last Seen
    12-13-17 @ 10:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    9,766

    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    How about instead of starting with a conclusion and looking for evidence to support it, (E.G., that the Bible is true and/or that evolution is true) take an unbiased look at the evidence and see where it leads.
    And what evidence might that be? I don't believe either is absolutely right or absolutely wrong. There's truth in both, but the ultimate truth...I don't think man will ever find the answer where evolution or creationism is concerned. WE just are. WE have adapted to our surroundings and our surroundings have adapted to us. The documentary, "Life After People" illustrates these facts very clearly. Man has learned to live in some of the harshest environments on this Earth, but as soon as Man leaves from one area nature reclaims the surrounding area. Life found a way to continue even without man's help. So shall it be after man is gone. Until then, man will adapt to his surroundings wherever he leaves his footprint. It just is...

    It doesn't take one with a keen scientific mind to figure this out. You just have to look beyond yourself every once in a while and see the beauty this Earth has to offer.

    We exist...We adapt....We evol.

    Next...
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 02-28-11 at 05:18 PM.

  6. #76
    Sage
    Hatuey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:54 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    42,050

    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I think there's room for science and religious theology. Consider the following:

    Biblical scripture teaches that God created man from the dust. Science teaches that this planet was formed from the collection of space debris colliding together and over time molding itself into this big blue ball, that is was once such the collision occurred that carried with it the building blocks - DNA - for life to form on Earth. Until then, science teaches that this planetoid was nothing more than a large piece of hot space junk. The question then becomes how did that single cell organism develop into the countless species of plant and animal life we know today?

    Answer: It evolved...adapted to its surroundings, changing over time. We're still seeing these such changes all around us everyday. They're subtle, i.e., setiments in water as it flows through rivers and streams being deposited in areas where they normally wouldn't have decades or hundreds if not thousands of years before. The Earth's crust shifting, volcanos erupting casting off the primortial soup was call lava which science has shown does reconstitute life.

    It's a cycle, one man can't fully understand in all its detail, but we are learning. We are evolving...every day. But the two answers we may never know are "why" and "how"? Why create man here on this planet were this lifeform (to our knowledge atleast) does not exist elsewhere? And how did we presumably go from what science says is a being from the water to a two-legged creature that walks upright that happens to have a higher plain of deductive reasoning than our nearest primate relative?

    For what it's worth, I just accept it for what it is, count my blessings that I was born human and not an ant or spider and move on. But I thank God for wisemen who are daring enough to challenge what they don't know and are brave enough to seek out answers that stand to benefit all of mankind.
    Objective, I read your post and I simply can't understand how you could possibly argue that one can reconcile biblical scripture with modern science or have them in the same room. Biblical scripture and by extention, religion is a response to man's ignorance of the world. Not his knowledge. Religion has been evolving from the day it was created. We went from believing in the power of elements such as fire, earth, wind etc to molding these into single omnipotent beings. These beings are not only capable of speaking the language of whomever it's refering to but also intervenes in the favor of the people writing the story. God, Gods, elements and whatever other belief one might have are an explanation for what one can't understand. Your post seems like an attempt to have your cake and eat it too. I'm just not convinced by your argument.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  7. #77
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Everywhere and Nowhere
    Last Seen
    03-07-12 @ 03:28 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,692

    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Biology is not meaningless in a debate about evolution. Evolution is in fact a theory of biology, and thus biology always has weight in the issue. People may want to politicize it, but those are deflections and thus not actually arguments about evolution itself. Biology is very important to the basis of the argument and if one ever wants to intelligently debate evolution, then biology must necessarily be there. I for one don't understand why there is such large resistance to evolution theory. It's the theory which best explains the observables. Hell at base evolution means to change, and we know things have changed. What existed in the past does not exist now and vice versa.

    I do fear that there is an undercurrent of anti-science, anti-intellectualism which is starting to spread across the US. This sort of willful ignorance is not a good thing. Humans never got anywhere by stagnation, we too must evolve.
    Well said, especially the last part. It seems like the U.S. is having its own minor Reformation happening that is challening rationality. I don't think it's just the fringes anymore, it's getting more widespread.

  8. #78
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Huntsville, AL (USA)
    Last Seen
    12-13-17 @ 10:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    9,766

    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Objective, I read your post and I simply can't understand how you could possibly argue that one can reconcile biblical scripture with modern science or have them in the same room. Biblical scripture and by extention, religion is a response to man's ignorance of the world. Not his knowledge. Religion has been evolving from the day it was created. We went from believing in the power of elements such as fire, earth, wind etc to molding these into single omnipotent beings. These beings are not only capable of speaking the language of whomever it's refering to but also intervenes in the favor of the people writing the story. God, Gods, elements and whatever other belief one might have are an explanation for what one can't understand. Your post seems like an attempt to have your cake and eat it too. I'm just not convinced by your argument.
    Let me try to elaborate...

    Scripture (Book of Genesis) attempts to "marginalize" creationism. In it's most basic terms, it says a powerful spirit being - God (Jehovah...Yahway, whatever you prefer to affix to Him, if any) said "let it be so" and "IT" was...whatever "IT" is...light, darkness, water, earth (soil), air, animals, insects, plants, trees, man. Except for how life was breath into man's lungs through his nostrils, the Bible doesn't outline how all this happened...just says God made it so and, thus, it happened.

    I'm not arguing that the Bible is an absolute where creationism is concerned. I'm merely saying that the abstract of man's creation - that he came from the dust - can be supported by the science. And the science says that the building blocks of life began with one cellestial collision that contained the proper elements to form life itself. Scripture just explains it in the abstract. It doesn't say, for example, how man lived, how he adapted to his living environment. Yet, that seems to be the argument you'd like for me to make. Science has already provided numerous examples as to how man lived and ultimately survived in some of the harshest environments on Earth. So, that's not an argument I'm willing to rehash here. Just go to a museum and see such evidence for yourself. But where the theology seems to part with the science or even conflict on the issue of creationism -vs- evolution, I say there's plenty of room for both. Scripture merely attempts to explain things in a format man can understand. Unfortunately, the details...how it all began...I think science, man's knowledge, will never be that complete. But we can get damned close. Beyond that, the arguments become too irrational. Hence, the focus of this poll...the "hows" and "whys"...man may never know the answers. But I appreciate wise men seeking answers for which I am not gifted enough to reach conclusions to myself.

    Sidenote: I think most men view scripture incorrectly. My take: The Bible isn't necessarily cookie-cutter one world view. It would be great if the world did treat each other with common decency that much of biblical scripture espouses. Unfortunately...

    Yes, religions divide man. I won't argue that. But, IMO, I see the Bible as merely a guide book to teach man lessons of life, individual responsibilities, human behavioral patterns that if ignored we are doomed to repeat the same mistakes men before us have made, and on how to be kind and charitable towards one another especially to those who are less fortunate. Doesn't mean you give to everyone who has his hand out. For some are lazy and only wish to take advantage of one's kindness and generosity. But overall, we are to love one another. We're all part of the human element. But I'll save that for another debate. Bottom line here is IMO if you're looking at the Bible as an absolute, I'd say you've missed the mark. But until that day when I come face-to-face with my Makers (if such a God truly exist; I choose to believe there is something out there more powerful than myself), then I hope to be afforded the opportunity to ask these and many such questions. Until then, I choose to put my faith in this good Book of Spiritual Enlightenment and try as best I can to live my life conforming to the standards it setforth as best I can. I fall short at times, but part of repentance is realizing your shortcomings and trying not to repeat them again and again.

    We exist, We adapt, we evol...
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 02-28-11 at 06:32 PM.

  9. #79
    King Of The Dog Pound
    Black Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    South Florida
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    34,516

    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    It is between zealots of any religion and people (scientists or not) who have any kind of real grasp of what evolution is.

    Are questions about aspects of evolution unanswered? Yes, but this should not put it at odds with religion or one's faith.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  10. #80
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Last Seen
    02-24-14 @ 01:55 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    421

    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    I am still awaiting the evidence presented by the Scientific Method of Observable, Reproducible Experimentation that makes Vertical Evolution of Life from Dead Matter a fact of physical Science. What I see are Conjectures, Speculations and Cosmological Arguments based upon philosophy and prima facie hypothesis based upon the things observed Today with an unprovable assumption that the Universe has not changed throughout all antiquity, when Physical Science confirms the fact that something so mundane as WATER can and does change the rate of decay in the very same radio active elements used as a supposed STANDARD to calibrate age...with Science also proving that not one inch of the earth's surface at one time has not been covered in water at some point in its history.
    Last edited by Walter; 02-28-11 at 08:36 PM.

Page 8 of 42 FirstFirst ... 67891018 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •