View Poll Results: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

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    38 53.52%
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    33 46.48%
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Thread: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

  1. #41
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post

    How is that not exactly what I said?
    What you did say I responded to in my post which you have yet to address.
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    You can try to stall and makes excuses all you want to avoid addressing my arguments. You aren't fooling anyone.
    Heh..."stall"...as though there's some sort of looming deadline on this thread. Just look at my signature, take a breath, and calm down.

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    How about the fact there are millions of Christians who don't believe the earth is 6000-8000 years old yet still don't believe evolution is true.
    Your own link describes such Christians as a "small but vocal group". Are you retracting your link?

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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    What you did say I responded to in my post which you have yet to address.
    Less than "address", actualy.....more accurately 'which I have yet to read'. There's no need to get all worked up over this thread. We aren't changing anything here.

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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Heh..."stall"...as though there's some sort of looming deadline on this thread. Just look at my signature, take a breath, and calm down.
    I said "stall and make excuses". This is exactly what you are doing rather than addressing my response to your post.

    Here is the post: http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1059312737



    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Your own link describes such Christians as a "small but vocal group". Are you retracting your link?
    I have no idea what you are talking about.
    1) tell me concisely what you think i have claimed that you disagree with
    2) then show me where you think the links says otherwise
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  5. #45
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Do you know the difference between evolution and abiogenesis? It seems many fundamentalists Christians, such as yourself, do NOT and go on long rants about abiogenesis.

    Evolution is a scientific theory proven to the same extent, if not better than, as the theory of gravitation. Unlike evolution, there is no scientific consensus on how life first came about here on earth.
    Sure I know the difference. Vertical Evolution, i.e, abiogenesis are falsified upon every attempt to establish that HYPOTHESIS as a valid possibility....by the Scientific Method of Observed, Reproducible Experimentation, while on the other Biogenesis is confirmed by that same Scientific Method on a daily BASIS in both nature and the lab. While Abiogenesis has never been demonstrated to be anything other than a speculation, Biogenesis can not be denied as a Fact of Physical Science as demonstrated by Louis Pasteur.

    Simply present ONE SUCCESSFUL experimentation that has produced anything except a building block of PROTEIN....ammino acid, which is as far removed from producing life as the day is from the night. Even when Science copies or reproduces certain DNA strains, Life cannot be animated void of injecting preexisting life into that experiment, just as the LAW OF BIOGENESIS explains. Even Gravity can be observed by the potential demonstrated when a Quantum Formula is applied, if such were not true there would be no Atomic Research, Micro Wave Research, or Radio Wave technology possible. But...such is not the case with the hypothesis concerning the origins of life....Life cannot come from NOTHING...even speaking in terms of Quantum Physics...regardless of how SMALL and undetectable it might be, THE POTENTIAL is very observable and reproducible upon each application of said formula. But LIFE coming from DEAD MATTER cannot be Observed nor Reproduced on any level.

    I totally agree, ABIOGENSES and VERTICAL EVOLUTION are on the same plane of reality......its nothing but Speculation void of any physical reproducible evidence...aka, best known as PHILOSOPHY, not PHYSICAL SCIENCE.

    But, Biogenesis is a PHYSICAL LAW, well documented with a plethora of evidences.
    Last edited by Walter; 02-27-11 at 01:08 AM.

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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by hallam View Post
    I disagree. The debate does not come from scientist or religion. The debate, sadly, comes from the media and from politics. Believing in or not believing in Evolution won't change you, won't make you a better person, won't show you to be intelligent or ignorant. It is a made up fight to distract people from real concerns. It used as a litmus test (either for or against) so that you will either just agree with what the person says (either for or against) or ignore them. Evolution may be a fact but it is a worthless fact. It has no creditability as debate at the level you are talking about.
    Here are some applications of the "worthless fact" you call evolution:

    CA215: Practical uses of evolution.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

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  7. #47
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter View Post
    Sure I know the difference. Vertical Evolution, i.e, abiogenesis is falsified upon every attempt to establish that HYPOTHESIS as a valid possibility....by the Scientific Method of Observed, Reproducible Experimentation, while on the other Biogenesis is confirmed by that same Scientific Method on a daily method in both nature and the lab. While Abiogenesis has never been demonstrated to be anything other than a speculation, Biogenesis can not be denied as a Fact of Physical Science as demonstrated by Louis Pasteur.
    If you understand the difference then why would you bring up abiogenesis in a discussion regarding evolution? In particular, you said the following:

    There has never been one experiment out of countless hundreds of thousands that has been conducted in the scientific method that demonstrates the Vertical Evolution of Dead Matter into biological life...is even a possibility might less a probability, yet even after being falsified time and time again....this theory is taught as a FACT of Science. I could never support a blatant fabrication.
    This indicates that:
    1) you don't understand the difference between evolution and abiogensis
    2) you mistakenly believe that when scientists refer to evolution they are also referring to abiogenesis.
    3) you don't know that no theory on abiogenesis is widely accepted within the scientific community.
    Last edited by scourge99; 02-27-11 at 01:00 AM.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    If you understand the difference then why would you bring up abiogenesis in a discussion regarding evolution? In particular, you said the following:



    This indicates that:
    1) you don't understand the difference between evolution and abiogensis
    2) you mistakenly believe that when scientists refer to evolution they are also referring to abiogenesis.
    3) you don't know that no theory on abiogenesis is widely accepted within the scientific community.
    Both are speculations void of any evidence produced by the Scientific Method. As I said, its a most simple thing. Produce the evidence that makes either a LAW of PHYSICS...like BIOGENESIS. All the deflective spin in the world cannot hide from the facts of FALSIFICATION. Put up....or shut up, no one is interested in observing you pat your self on the back in a self professed declaration of intelligence. Evolution is not possible void of ABIOGENESIS being a demonstrable FACT. It you do not accept Evolution and Abiogenesis .....then we are in agreement, LIFE is a product of CREATION. You cannot attempt to deflect from the basic Tenet of DEAD MATTER EVOLUTION...and exclude either. When you do you are no longer working in the Field of Science, but Philosophy and attempting to establish TRUTH not on physical facts of evidence but upon a comparative Conjecture based upon PRIMA FACIE hope.
    Last edited by Walter; 02-27-11 at 01:20 AM.

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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    I said "stall and make excuses". This is exactly what you are doing rather than addressing my response to your post.
    That's correct, I'm not addressing that post. You would like to assume it's because I can't debate my position, but in fact it's because I'm separating myself from trolling behavior. If you value a response from me, please understand that I will not reply to a post containing that behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    1) tell me concisely what you think i have claimed that you disagree with
    This is your claim;
    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Religious belief and a rejection of evolution are STRONGLY correlated in the US.
    In fact, what your link argues is that there is a stronger religious objection to evolution in the US than in other countries. However, you took that mean most of the religious in the US object to evolution. That's not what your link says.

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    2) then show me where you think the links says otherwise
    To quote it once again:
    Among the factors contributing to America's low score are poor understanding of biology, especially genetics, the politicization of science and the literal interpretation of the Bible by a small but vocal group of American Christians, the researchers say.
    ...which is exactly what I said here:
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    While there is a loud religious objection to evolution, only a small minority of religious people actually object to the theory. Those few who care enough to make a noise, dedicate their lives and treasure to making a substantial disturbance, often drowning out the religious who agree with evolution.
    ...to which you objected.

    Your link independently verifies my claim. Your link does not substantiate your claim.

    I maintain that the loud minority remains a minority non the less, and in America evolution has a home.
    Last edited by Jerry; 02-27-11 at 01:19 AM.

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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter View Post
    Both are speculations void of any evidence produced by the Scientific Method.
    Quote Originally Posted by Walter View Post
    As I said, its a most simple thing. Produce the evidence that makes either a LAW of PHYSICS...like BIOGENESIS.
    GO start a thread on "evidence for evolution" (not abiogenesis). Better yet, go here because it contains simple explanations and references to peer reviewed research: 29+ Evidences for Macroevolution: the Scientific Case for Common Descent

    It even has a page all about debunking common creationist claims: An Index to Creationist Claims



    Quote Originally Posted by Walter View Post
    Evolution is not possible void of ABIOGENESIS being a demonstrable FACT.
    Evolution is a valid theory even without abiogenesis, just like the theory of gravitation is valid even though we don't understand why matter generates gravity.

    Perhaps life was started by a god, by natural causes, or something else. Not knowing doesn't invalidate the evidence for evolution.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

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