View Poll Results: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

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    38 53.52%
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Thread: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

  1. #31
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    While there is a loud religious objection to evolution, only a small minority of religious people actually object to the theory. Those few who care enough to make a noise, dedicate their lives and treasure to making a substantial disturbance, often drowning out the religious who agree with evolution.
    Religious belief and a rejection of evolution are STRONGLY correlated in the US.

    U.S. Lags World in Grasp of Genetics and Acceptance of Evolution | LiveScience

    A comparison of peoples' views in 34 countries finds that the United States ranks near the bottom when it comes to public acceptance of evolution. Only Turkey ranked lower.

    The analysis found that Americans with fundamentalist religious beliefs—defined as belief in substantial divine control and frequent prayer—were more likely to reject evolution than Europeans with similar beliefs.



    On Darwin

    "Darwin's theory has been at the forefront of religious debate since he published On the Origin of Species 150 years ago. Even to this day, highly religious individuals claim that the theory of evolution contradicts the story of creation as outlined in the book of Genesis in the Bible.

    Thus, it comes as no surprise to find that there is a strong relationship between church attendance and belief in evolution in the current data. Those who attend church most often are the least likely to say they believe in evolution.
    "

    "There is a strong relationship between education and belief in Darwin's theory, as might be expected, ranging from 21% of those with high-school educations or less to 74% of those with postgraduate degrees."


    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The radical religious would have one believe modern scientists are advancing a known lie, when in fact your typical average religious person takes little or no issue with evolution at all.
    The problem is the "radical religious" are a majority.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Let's not forget that many prominent forefathers of modern science were profoundly religious.
    Scientists don't require you take their word for it that their theories are true. What they claim is true is testable by ANYONE who wishes to question it. Apparently you conveniently forget this fact when it comes to religious beliefs and expect us to just take their word for it. GO figure.
    Last edited by scourge99; 02-26-11 at 11:31 PM.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  2. #32
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    If you have spent any real time on this forum you're fully aware of the debate raging between those who support evolution and those who do not. There is little doubt that when examined as a whole, the majority of the scientific community overwhelmingly supports evolution as a logical explanation for the development of life. There is also little doubt that the majority of the American populace does not support evolution as explained by scientists. 78% of Americans believe God was involvement in the creation of humans either through creating us in our present form or by guiding the evolutionary process. Not surprisingly 76% of Americans consider themselves to be Christians. These numbers lead to believe that since there is little evidence for a 'debate among evolutionary scientists' the debate on evolution is between scientists and the religious. Do you agree? If not then I welcome you to support your statement.

    This vote is public so vote only if you're willing to substantiate your answer.

    This is not a debate on evolution but a debate on the debate itself.
    I disagree. The debate does not come from scientist or religion. The debate, sadly, comes from the media and from politics. Believing in or not believing in Evolution won't change you, won't make you a better person, won't show you to be intelligent or ignorant. It is a made up fight to distract people from real concerns. It used as a litmus test (either for or against) so that you will either just agree with what the person says (either for or against) or ignore them. Evolution may be a fact but it is a worthless fact. It has no creditability as debate at the level you are talking about.

  3. #33
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    It's amazing how a policy penned so as to maintain political control of a local region, for a historically brief moment in time, could still cause ripples today. Young-Earth Creationism is based on the literal reading of a translated text, which as a translation is itself inherently flawed; and the lie was deliberately generated. Only the truly misguided ever sincerely believed Young Earth Creationism. From both a philosophical and scientific point of view, YEC is so easily rebuked one wonders if the Kool-aid is laced with heroin or meth to keep it's true believers drinking.

    Spare yourself and give it as little attention as possible.
    Young Earth Creation is but one slice of the pie. Christians reject evolution for purely religious reasons on other grounds as well.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  4. #34
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter View Post
    In all honesty I could never support a theory that when tested in the Scientific Method of Observed, Reproducible Experimentation concludes with the same outcome....such a theory is "falsified" by the application of Physical Science. There has never been one experiment out of countless hundreds of thousands that has been conducted in the scientific method that demonstrates the Vertical Evolution of Dead Matter into biological life...is even a possibility might less a probability, yet even after being falsified time and time again....this theory is taught as a FACT of Science. I could never support a blatant fabrication.

    Its a simple thing...if such is indeed a fact of PHYSICAL SCIENCE, just present the experiment that demonstrates that life can be spontaneously generated from dead matter void of injecting preexisting life into the experiment. Until such an event takes place, I could never lie in order to promote the doctrine of Darwinian Cultism.
    Do you know the difference between evolution and abiogenesis? It seems many fundamentalists Christians, such as yourself, do NOT and go on long rants about abiogenesis.

    Evolution is a scientific theory proven to the same extent, if not better than, as the theory of gravitation. Unlike evolution, there is no scientific consensus on how life first came about here on earth.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    There is no debate on evolution. It is established fact and theory. Any debate is on the false "controversy" and is irrelevant.
    If it is an established fact, it should be no problem whatsoever in presenting the experiment that demonstrates that life can be spontaneously generated from dead matter, the basic tenet of Vertical Evolution. Next you could present the fossil record of the pre-cambrian age that shows the existence of macro biological fossils that demonstrates the possibility for the existence of SOMETHING for macro life to have evolved from, Strange micro biological fossils can be found but no marco life examples in the actual record. Next you can explain just how a one celled ASEXUAL example of life could slowly evolve over a period of billions of years to produce biological life that requires two genders to procreate.

    Or explain the existence of living creatures that could have had no possible way of evolving slowly into their modern states of existence.....

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNhNxMnJSsQ

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-pjzWZBLro

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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Apparently you conveniently forget this fact when it comes to religious beliefs and expect us to just take their word for it. GO figure.
    IMO this is trolling behavior. Perhaps when you've calmed down we can discuss the issue.

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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Young Earth Creation is but one slice of the pie. Christians reject evolution for purely religious reasons on other grounds as well.
    Such as?


    ..............

  8. #38
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Part of the problem lies in how evolution is often framed. As a scientific theory, it is normally presented as natural events that occurred with a total absence of divine guidance.
    Scientific theories of evolution make no mention of divine guidance within evolution because there is NO EVIDENCE OF DIVINE GUIDANCE within evolution. This is NOT rocket science.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Now, hold on a sec. I'm prefectly aware that a scientist who said "God guided evolution to produce the lifeforms that currently exist", in an official peer-reviewed thesis paper, would find himself in quite a mess with his fellow scientists.
    Scientists don't publish peer-reviewed papers on god guided evolution because THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF GOD GUIDED EVOLUTION.

    Look at the contorted and contrived explanations you must come up to explain why scientists, many of which are God believing, don't publish papers on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I know perfectly well that "and THEN a MIRACLE happens!" is not an acceptible corrolary to a hypothesis, or an acceptible step in solving an equation.
    What you call "miracles" in this case are what scientists call "unknown causes". Just like ancient man experiences lighting and earthquakes and blamed them on Zeus or other gods, you commit the same mistake and label what you don't understand or know as "god". If you can't understand it then "goddidit". Most scientists have LEARNED from past mistakes. When scientists DON'T KNOW what caused something they are HONEST and admit it. They say, "I don't know what caused X". It could be a god, it could be natural, it could be something else. But they don't make premature and arrogant statements before they can DEMONSTRATE what they claim.

    You FALSELY to claim that scientists are afraid to put god in there papers. They aren't afraid to do it. They understand that there is no justification to do such. They understand that not knowing what caused something is not evidence that their goddidit or any other goddidit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    The problem is that evolution has been rammed up our collective arses as a divisive line between the scientific and the religious, and both sides have engaged in their share of the ramming and the dividing.


    What a world we live in when publishing verifiable and testable theories based on evidence and reason is considered "ramming it up your ass". The only reason you take such a position is because such theories contradict your favored holy-book. I notice you take no offense to those who believe gravitation or relativity isn't true. Its only because interpretations within your bronze age holy-book's have been repeatedly shown FALSE and WITHOUT merit by honest people who study what happens in the natural world. I'm sure you'd be right at home with the Catholic Church during the 16th century condemning Galileo for "ramming his theories" up your ass too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Many denominations, including Catholicism, have chosen to consider the Genesis account to be allegorical rather than literal, and to specify that while God was the author of Creation and it's guiding hand, that that doesn't mean that scientific theories of evolution are not themselves valid within their own context.... which is to say, the scientific realm of thought, rather than the spiritual realm of faith.
    The only reason these "stories" suddenly change from literal to allegorical is because scientists, many of which are religious, repeatedly slap people in the face with EVIDENCE and REASON before they snap back to reality.

    It seems to take an overwhelming amount of evidence to change the mind of the religiously indoctrinated. And even then it doesn't always persuade "true believers". Evolution is the perfect example of that.

    This bumper sticker comes to mind "The Bible says it. I believe it. That settles it!".

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Yet, a small but loud minority of the anti-religious have chosen to denigrate this position and disparage the moderate denominations for daring to inject God into the discussion at all. This provokes a counter-reaction that widens the divisiveness of the issue.
    The anti-religious denigrate those who believe there is divine guidance in evolution because there is NO EVIDENCE OF DIVINE GUIDANCE within evolution. There is nothing in support of divine guidance. There is only opinion, conjecture, personal conviction, and holy-book tales.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Scientific theories of evolution make no mention of divine guidance within evolution because there is NO EVIDENCE OF DIVINE GUIDANCE within evolution.
    May I remind you that this thread is not intended for a debate on evolution itself.

    From your link:
    Among the factors contributing to America's low score are poor understanding of biology, especially genetics, the politicization of science and the literal interpretation of the Bible by a small but vocal group of American Christians, the researchers say.
    How is that not exactly what I said?

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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    IMO this is trolling behavior. Perhaps when you've calmed down we can discuss the issue.
    You can try to stall and makes excuses all you want to avoid addressing my arguments. You aren't fooling anyone.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Such as?
    ..............
    How about the fact there are millions of Christians who don't believe the earth is 6000-8000 years old yet still don't believe evolution is true.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

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