View Poll Results: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

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Thread: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    So, yes, science can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and then some.
    Effects, yes, but causes can never be fully examined or explained because much of it is not accessible, impossible to observe, only detected with with modern technology, which never can take the place of actual observance.

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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    Effects, yes, but causes can never be fully examined or explained because much of it is not accessible, impossible to observe, only detected with with modern technology, which never can take the place of actual observance.

    ricksfolly
    Wtf is "actual observance"? Is that a fancy way of saying that things are only believable if you see them with your eyes?

    Your faculties are more prone to error than you give them credit for. Instead of relying on personal experience, we should rely on a convergence of both personal experience, hard data, and the experiences of others. To rely too heavily on any one is folly.
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    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Wtf is "actual observance"? Is that a fancy way of saying that things are only believable if you see them with your eyes?

    Your faculties are more prone to error than you give them credit for. Instead of relying on personal experience, we should rely on a convergence of both personal experience, hard data, and the experiences of others. To rely too heavily on any one is folly.
    If you were blind, couldn't hear and feel, none of the things you wrote would matter.

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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    What is a scientific theory?

    Theory: A theory is what one or more hypotheses become once they have been verified and accepted to be true. A theory is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses and verified multiple times by detached groups of researchers. Unfortunately, even some scientists often use the term "theory" in a more colloquial sense, when they really mean to say "hypothesis." That makes its true meaning in science even more confusing to the general public.

    In general, both a scientific theory and a scientific law are accepted to be true by the scientific community as a whole. Both are used to make predictions of events. Both are used to advance technology.
    Diseases are caused by microbes, not by evil spirits. That's a scientific theory.
    Life on Earth has evolved from earlier life forms. That's another.

    A scientific theory has been proven. It is accepted as fact. Evolution is a fact. Malaria is caused by a microbe that is spread by mosquitoes, and not by "bad air", as its name implies. That, too, is a fact. Colds are caused by viruses, and not by cold weather. Yet another fact.
    Last edited by Dittohead not!; 03-21-11 at 09:39 PM.
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Colds are caused by viruses, and not by cold weather. Yet another fact.
    You know I wish more people realized that.

    It's because your house/car/office is closed up to stay warm that germs have the opportunity to infect you. Cold weather itself, if anything, would reduce infection as it slows the reproduction of germs.
    Last edited by Jerry; 03-21-11 at 10:03 PM.

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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Your faculties are more prone to error than you give them credit for. Instead of relying on personal experience, we should rely on a convergence of personal experience, hard data, and the experiences of others. To rely too heavily on any one is (rick's)folly.
    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    If you were blind, couldn't hear and feel, none of the things you wrote would matter.
    Ignorance of a truth does not make that truth any less true. It just makes one ignorant.

    There is an objective reality despite our subjective experiences of it. We don't all live in our own pocket universes.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    What is a scientific theory?



    Diseases are caused by microbes, not by evil spirits. That's a scientific theory.
    Life on Earth has evolved from earlier life forms. That's another.

    A scientific theory has been proven. It is accepted as fact. Evolution is a fact. Malaria is caused by a microbe that is spread by mosquitoes, and not by "bad air", as its name implies. That, too, is a fact. Colds are caused by viruses, and not by cold weather. Yet another fact.
    It as accepted as fact, but, yet again, you cannot "prove" a scientific theory.
    Let's take gravity. Every time we observe its effect, it is the same. But, it could be different tomorrow and thus throw the whole thing off scale.
    Scientific theories are based off of empirical evidence, something we can test for. Until it is disproved, it stands. However, we cannot prove that it will hold for all cases.

    I agree with you almost completely, but just this one point isn't true.
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You know I wish more people realized that.

    It's because your house/car/office is closed up to stay warm that germs have the opportunity to infect you. Cold weather itself, if anything, would reduce infection as it slows the reproduction of germs.
    Yes, and yet the legend persists that colds are caused by cold. Maybe it's because of the name.
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    It as accepted as fact, but, yet again, you cannot "prove" a scientific theory.
    Let's take gravity. Every time we observe its effect, it is the same. But, it could be different tomorrow and thus throw the whole thing off scale.
    Scientific theories are based off of empirical evidence, something we can test for. Until it is disproved, it stands. However, we cannot prove that it will hold for all cases.
    Nothing in reality can be "proven" as you define it. What you are defining is not "proof" but "absolute certainty".

    Absolute certainty is belief beyond any possible doubt (not just reasonable doubt, as in criminal trials in the U.S.). The only propositions that someone could be absolutely certain about are those proven within a rigorous logical system and even those would typically have to be conditional statements, since they would necessarily rest on unproven assumptions (axioms or postulates), which one may not be absolutely certain of.



    Lacking absolute certainty does not inhibit one from making consistently good decisions.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Nothing in reality can be "proven" as you define it. What you are defining is not "proof" but "absolute certainty".

    Absolute certainty is belief beyond any possible doubt (not just reasonable doubt, as in criminal trials in the U.S.). The only propositions that someone could be absolutely certain about are those proven within a rigorous logical system — and even those would typically have to be conditional statements, since they would necessarily rest on unproven assumptions (axioms or postulates), which one may not be absolutely certain of.



    Lacking absolute certainty does not inhibit one from making consistently good decisions.
    Well, of course not. Mathematical proofs are as close to absolute certainty as we get. For example, the mathematical representation of gravity is "proven" more than the actual thing we call gravity. We have yet to see a graviton or know what causes it - there's actually quite a bit we don't know about it.
    Scientific theories are quite clear. They are about as close to fact as can possibly be shown by science. However, the fact that they are falsifiable is one of their greatest assets, not a detraction.
    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

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