View Poll Results: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

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  • Yes

    38 53.52%
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    33 46.48%
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Thread: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Those are apologists, not necessarily theologians. Apologists insist what they believe is true. Many, if not most theologians focus solely on faith, they couldn't care less about whether or not the beliefs are actually true. Most seminaries teach that what's in the Bible isn't actually true. Check out Bart Ehrman's Jesus Interrupted for a good description of what seminaries teach.



    That's because the religious aren't interested in whether or not their beliefs are true, only whether or not their beliefs make them feel good. They form a self-identity around these beliefs, to the point where they cannot bring themselves to imagine that they're not real. Therefore, no matter how much evidence to the contrary exists, they will always demand that what they believe is real. That's why the religious are delusional.
    Since faith is accepting something as true without evidence, the very idea of presenting counter evidence seems silly. Evidence didn't form their opinion in the first place, so why would you assume evidence would change it? Talk about delusions.

    I for one didn't accept the premise that God exists because I had evidence. That's backwards and leads me to wonder if you even realize how theories work. In order to test your hypothesis you have to operate under various assumed premises which you know you don't have evidence for.

    You would have every person stuck in the endless regression of proofs of proofs, proofs of proofs of proofs, and proofs of proofs of proofs. There comes a point where you have to just accept something as reasonable even if you can't bottle it. The assumption of God is made reasonable at a basic social and biological level, and it's a premise from which many tested behaviors prove to be beneficial.

    I think militant atheists such as yourself are just uncomfortable with anyone who doesn't hyper-qualify every word they say with "I believe" or "in my opinion".

    Your behavior on this forum doesn't represent atheists as well adjusted members of society.

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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    That's because the religious aren't interested in whether or not their beliefs are true, only whether or not their beliefs make them feel good. They form a self-identity around these beliefs, to the point where they cannot bring themselves to imagine that they're not real. Therefore, no matter how much evidence to the contrary exists, they will always demand that what they believe is real. That's why the religious are delusional.
    This is a complete and utter failure to logic which you hold so dear.

    Just blanket statements based on opinion. No fact, no source, just blanket statements that are not even remotely true. Then you finish it by insulting anyone who has any kind of religious belief. Bravo!

    I mean seriously, people are religious for many different reasons. Just that statement is enough to prove that asinine statement you made is nothing but hot air and wrong.
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    the religious aren't interested in whether or not their beliefs are true, only whether or not their beliefs make them feel good.
    Not so... They believe because they need to or have to, and their belief is as real to them as their arms and legs.

    We're all hardwired to believe in something. If not religion, other emotional causes, principals, and conventional wisdom that may or may not be true, no matter what they are, or whether they make sense or not, for the the rest of our lives.

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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    Not so... They believe because they need to or have to, and their belief is as real to them as their arms and legs.

    We're all hardwired to believe in something. If not religion, other emotional causes, principals, and conventional wisdom that may or may not be true, no matter what they are, or whether they make sense or not, for the the rest of our lives.

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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    If you have spent any real time on this forum you're fully aware of the debate raging between those who support evolution and those who do not. There is little doubt that when examined as a whole, the majority of the scientific community overwhelmingly supports evolution as a logical explanation for the development of life. There is also little doubt that the majority of the American populace does not support evolution as explained by scientists. 78% of Americans believe God was involvement in the creation of humans either through creating us in our present form or by guiding the evolutionary process. Not surprisingly 76% of Americans consider themselves to be Christians. These numbers lead to believe that since there is little evidence for a 'debate among evolutionary scientists' the debate on evolution is between scientists and the religious. Do you agree? If not then I welcome you to support your statement.

    This vote is public so vote only if you're willing to substantiate your answer.

    This is not a debate on evolution but a debate on the debate itself.
    Clashing views in this area have been raging since the dawn of man - when one man conceived one idea and another man conceived a different idea.

    It's most certainly not new.

    And scientists debating other scientists is just as old.
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Most seminaries teach that what's in the Bible isn't actually true.
    I think that is a minority. Whats taught in seminaries is probably more nuanced but I believe most have a fundamentalist position.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Check out Bart Ehrman's Jesus Interrupted for a good description of what seminaries teach.
    I've read it a couple of times.



    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    That's because the religious aren't interested in whether or not their beliefs are true, only whether or not their beliefs make them feel good.
    You will never find any room for debate/discussion with theists if you claim to be a mind-reader. Whether its true or not, you wouldn't find it reasonable for someone to tell you that you are an atheist because you "hate god".

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    They form a self-identity around these beliefs, to the point where they cannot bring themselves to imagine that they're not real.
    For some/many, sure. But many are convinced their beliefs are true. That they are both reasonable, defensible, and superior to other positions. Such things can be debated wtihout commenting on one another's mindset.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Therefore, no matter how much evidence to the contrary exists, they will always demand that what they believe is real. That's why the religious are delusional.
    You are correct but i disagree with your spin.

    No one can be forced into a belief. They must come to their own conclusions. The best one can do is present the reasoning and evidence to justify an alternative. If your opponent is honest then they will be at least forced to acknowledge the validity of a differing perspective.
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    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Since faith is accepting something as true without evidence, the very idea of presenting counter evidence seems silly. Evidence didn't form their opinion in the first place, so why would you assume evidence would change it? Talk about delusions.

    I for one didn't accept the premise that God exists because I had evidence. That's backwards and leads me to wonder if you even realize how theories work. In order to test your hypothesis you have to operate under various assumed premises which you know you don't have evidence for.

    You would have every person stuck in the endless regression of proofs of proofs, proofs of proofs of proofs, and proofs of proofs of proofs. There comes a point where you have to just accept something as reasonable even if you can't bottle it. The assumption of God is made reasonable at a basic social and biological level, and it's a premise from which many tested behaviors prove to be beneficial.

    I think militant atheists such as yourself are just uncomfortable with anyone who doesn't hyper-qualify every word they say with "I believe" or "in my opinion".

    Your behavior on this forum doesn't represent atheists as well adjusted members of society.
    Fideism has been shown by both philosophers and theologians alike as untenable.

    I invite you to read Norman Geisler's critique (a christian who holds a PhD in philosophy) in Christian Apologetics.

    Amazon.com: Christian Apologetics (9780801038228): Norman L. Geisler: Books
    Last edited by scourge99; 03-20-11 at 06:01 PM.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    We're all hardwired to believe in something. If not religion, other emotional causes, principals, and conventional wisdom that may or may not be true, no matter what they are, or whether they make sense or not, for the the rest of our lives.
    We are all born with a worldview, I agree. But as conscious beings we possess the ability to analyze our experiences, allowing us to evolve our worldview to one that better predicts and conforms to reality and our experiences. But no one can be forced to accept superior explanations. They must arrive at such conclusions themselves. Many fail for a variety of reasons.

    The supernatural claims of religions fail in a big way because they are indistinguishable from imaginings.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    The evolution debate in the USA does not involve scientists per se. It is between the supporters of science and the ignorant.
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Clashing views in this area have been raging since the dawn of man - when one man conceived one idea and another man conceived a different idea.

    It's most certainly not new.

    And scientists debating other scientists is just as old.
    Except that scientists can prove their points. Theologians never can. Neither the proponents of any organized religion, nor the theists, not the atheists can prove their position. That's the difference between science and religion. None of that means that religion is wrong, of course, except when its beliefs have been proven incorrect scientifically.
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