View Poll Results: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

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    38 53.52%
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Thread: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

  1. #181
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    38% of the nation are Christian and acknowledge the theory of evolution.

    You might argue that it's a battle between superstition and rationality, but it's just plain factually incorrect to say that it's a battle between the religious and the scientific when around half of the religious acknowledge your theory.

    I might also think that the theory of evolution contradicts their religion in more ways than I can count, but their position is still an improvement over the Creationists'.

  2. #182
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Children decide allot of things based on how they feel. You did not like the class, hence did not like the stories etc. Perfectly normal for a 7 year old.

    [/color]

    Lots of things. Too long a list to go into here. The mind of a 7 year old is not that developed, so it means little as far as I can tell.

    At this point it has also added nothing to the debate?
    Again, you miss the point. I didnít have a dislike for fairy tales, I like stories. I also felt free to not believe they were factual. So if a 7 year old can figure it out, why can't others?

  3. #183
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by SirPwn4lot View Post
    38% of the nation are Christian and acknowledge the theory of evolution.

    You might argue that it's a battle between superstition and rationality, but it's just plain factually incorrect to say that it's a battle between the religious and the scientific when around half of the religious acknowledge your theory.

    I might also think that the theory of evolution contradicts their religion in more ways than I can count, but their position is still an improvement over the Creationists'.
    That statistics begs the question - why do 62% of the country's Christians not acknowledge evolution?
    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

  4. #184
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    The system which his God is understood is above "reality" and logic. That is the whole point. You are conversing on one level and he on another.
    Yes, mine is reality, his is fantasy.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  5. #185
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    The heart of evolutionary theory is adaptation, and the survival of the fittest. Animals have mutations, and the ones with the good mutations survive, reproduce, and pass on their genes, and the ones with the bad mutations die off. Now those mutations could have been because of random chance, or maybe not, or maybe both. Now as to the beginning of life, well evolution provides no answer to that, just how life adapts to the surrounding environment.
    No. The heart of modern evolutionary theory is the absence of any pre-existing plan or goal. Mutations that do occur are flaws in the chromosomal replication, and selection is acting blindly.

    Any presumption that mutations are not random or that the selection is not strictly mechanical invalidates the presumption of the theory of evolution by natural selection and transforms evolution into some "Intelligent Design" category.

    there is no irrefutable evidence for intelligent nor is there any plausible theory regarding the mechanics of ID. Therefore, ID is not a valid properly formatted scientific theory and has the status of pseudoscientific twaddle, along with Velikovskians, the pyramid people, and the Crop Circlers.

    Also, no one informed of evolution confuses that topic with abiogenesis.

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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Then faith cannot be verified and is thus wishful thinking. You're not making a very good case for the validity of having faith.
    Well, let the Mayor straighten this one out.

    Millions of people have faith that the lottery ticket in their pocket could be the winner.

    When the fact comes out that it's not, their faith is rejected by the wise, and only the dogmatic persist in thinking they've won millions.

    Faith is the belief in something without sufficient evidence.

    Delusion is the belief in something in the face of overwhelming contradictory evidence.

  7. #187
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I pointed out correctly more "atrocities" have happened and people murdered in the name of man's own inherent need for power in just the 20th century than all people dying for or because of religion in all of history combined.
    And many of those were caused in large part to the same irrational certainty as is present in religion: faith. Faith in an ideology, authority, or ideal. Faith is an evil across the board, whether it is with religion or without.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    So because of the atrocity's committed in the name of religion or "faith" you say it is not worthy to be "revered" or "applauded."
    My criticism is of faith alone. Religions just happen to have any unhealthy obsession with faith hence they are often the target of criticism. Atheists are no less likely to possess beliefs based on irrational certainty than theists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Faith can bring about great good as well as great evil.
    I AGREE!. Let us remove the chance that people may stumble upon a faith in great good rather than great evil. Let us do good for REASONS and not because of the happenstance of our upbringing and irrational persuasions.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Like anything else you have to take the good with the bad.
    Are you too lazy or apathetic that you would not seek to increase the good and reduce or eliminate the bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    So yes, great faith and the billions of people it has helped since the dawn of man are indeed worthy of every accolade.
    There is NOTHING that cannot be achieved by religion that cannot also be achieved through purely secular means.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Unlike your train of thought...We don't throw out the baby with the bath water.
    Unlike your train of thought, we throw out the bath water and keep the baby. You have been surpassed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Not all Muslims are extremists or represent extremist ideals.
    I have not indicted all Muslims on charges of extremism.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  8. #188
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I think the best secular explanation is false, leaving only a theological explanation that I believe is more strongly supported by scientific evidence than even the secular one.
    There is no "secular answer" unless by secular you mean, "based on objective and independently verifiable evidence and reason and not based on the assumed truth of any particular relgiion or holy-book tales".


    I'd like everyone to notice how Digsbe attempts to make this a debate between religion and science. In fact, there is no debate. There is simply the whimpering of particular religious group when science presents a theory that contradicts their interpretation of a holy-book.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  9. #189
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    That statistics begs the question - why do 62% of the country's Christians not acknowledge evolution?
    No, it's 40%/38%, the rest don't believe in a god, like myself.

  10. #190
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    Millions of people have faith that the lottery ticket in their pocket could be the winner.

    When the fact comes out that it's not, their faith is rejected by the wise, and only the dogmatic persist in thinking they've won millions.

    Faith is the belief in something without sufficient evidence.

    Delusion is the belief in something in the face of overwhelming contradictory evidence.
    Yes, but we know the lottery is actually real, and they actually have a ticket in their pocket which could, in theory, win said lottery. It's demonstrably factual.

    Then you get religion, where there is no evidence that any god(s) actually exist, that the supernatural claims made in any of the holy books are real, or that any of the promises made in said books is more than wishful thinking.

    Can you see the difference between the two?

    Belief in something for which you have no good reason to think is actually true is delusion. Many people are openly and happily delusional. That's sad, no matter how good said delusion might make them feel.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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