View Poll Results: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

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  • Yes

    38 53.52%
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    33 46.48%
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Thread: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

  1. #111
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    If you have spent any real time on this forum you're fully aware of the debate raging between those who support evolution and those who do not. There is little doubt that when examined as a whole, the majority of the scientific community overwhelmingly supports evolution as a logical explanation for the development of life. There is also little doubt that the majority of the American populace does not support evolution as explained by scientists. 78% of Americans believe God was involvement in the creation of humans either through creating us in our present form or by guiding the evolutionary process. Not surprisingly 76% of Americans consider themselves to be Christians. These numbers lead to believe that since there is little evidence for a 'debate among evolutionary scientists' the debate on evolution is between scientists and the religious. Do you agree? If not then I welcome you to support your statement.

    This vote is public so vote only if you're willing to substantiate your answer.

    This is not a debate on evolution but a debate on the debate itself.
    I'm Catholic. Evolution makes sense. God had a role. Evolution and religion are not contradictory concepts. I accept creation and evolution.

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  2. #112
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Redress simply meant it's those that are informed v. those that aren't, or are wilfully ignorant, though it's funny to see that you automatically assumed she was calling religious people ignorant.
    Maybe because I don't think Redress is religious.
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  3. #113
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Exactly!! Faith only requires personal conviction. We saw the power of faith when 19 highly educated men, many of which had degrees, some even PhD's, hijacked planes and flew them into buildings because they were absolutely certain that their beliefs regarding the afterlife and God were true. Not based on reason. Not based on evidence. Based entirely on FAITH.
    So what? People have done much worse with no conviction or "FAITH" at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    How many atrocities, wasted lives, and whacky ideas must you be presented with before you recognize that the irrational certainty, faith, is NOT something to be revered and applauded?
    Atrcities like ...

    Afghanistan 19781992 1,750,000
    Albania 19441985 100,000
    Angola 19752002 125,000
    Bulgaria 19441989 222,000
    China/PRC 19232007 76,702,000
    Cuba 19591992 73,000
    Czechoslovakia 19481968 65,000
    Ethiopia 19741991 1,343,610
    France 17931794 40,000
    Greece 19461949 20,000
    Hungary 19481989 27,000
    Kampuchea/Cambodia 19731991 2,627,000
    Laos 19752007 93,000
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    Mozambique 19751990 118,000
    North Korea 19482007 3,163,000
    Poland 19451948 1,607,000
    Romania 19481987 438,000
    Spain (Republic) 19361939 102,000
    U.S.S.R. 19171987 61,911,000
    Vietnam 19452007 1,670,000
    Yugoslavia 19441980 1,072,000

    None of which had anything to do with religion. It was man's inhumanity to man, nothing more.

    Your point is pretty much off topic, has little to do with my comment and is asinine at best.
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  4. #114
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I consider it more a debate between the educated and the ignorant.
    I see this is quite a long thread, and I've just logged on to it, but this second post says it all.
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  5. #115
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I see this is quite a long thread, and I've just logged on to it, but this second post says it all.
    Then this makes me ignorant despite the fact that I have studied evolution and am a molecular biology major with a 3.0+ GPA. But I guess I'm ignorant for believing in creationism and acknowledging the flaws in evolution. I find statements like that to be judgmental and offensive.
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  6. #116
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    I disagree. Advances in science, including Biology have profound impacts on technology such as food production and medical care. Evolution has had a particular important impact on our understanding and prevention of disease as the link specifically points out.
    Historical evolutionary theory did not create technology. You this is a strawman argument; we are not talking about applied science. We are talking about the theory of evolution mainly applied to human historical evolution. When the discussion of evolution comes up in these debates, it is only about where humans come from. This topic doesn't feed people. Nor does it help them, nor is it really important as knowing where we come from wont change anything now.

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    I'm not really sure how any type of hard science helps people gain political power.
    It doesn't. Therefore, as a political topic, historical evolution discussion should stop all together. It doesn't matter in peoples lives and it never really will.


    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Most people don't use working knowledge of MOST scientific theories in everyday life. E.G., even before the theory of gravitation was put forth--which allowed precise calculations of distance, speed and acceleration--people knew that things fell downwards. Your criticism can be applied to just about any scientific theory.
    Not quite. You used gravity as an example. People use gravity everyday. I just dropped my mouse on the couch. Gravity made it fall. I just tested the theory so to speak. Historical evolutionary theory, which we are talking about no matter what you would like to discuss about applied sciences, is not used by anyone and doesn't effect anyone today accept evolutionary historians and archeologists.

    I do agree with you though. there is no debate here but we differ on why their is no debate. You say science has won and I would agree. But the larger issue is utility, of which the theory of evolution, has none.

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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    I was taught the same thing as a child. Then I grew up and discovered for myself. I see no problem with the myth. It comforts some people. It isn't science. It is literature and folklore.

    That being said, many evolutionists like to think of man as some sort of godlike creature. That too is fictitious. Man is an advanced highly evolved animal.

  8. #118
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Then this makes me ignorant despite the fact that I have studied evolution and am a molecular biology major with a 3.0+ GPA. But I guess I'm ignorant for believing in creationism and acknowledging the flaws in evolution. I find statements like that to be judgmental and offensive.
    That depends on what you mean by "creationism". If you believe that Genesis is to be taken literally, then yes, I can see how you would find it offensive. If you believe that evolution was the way that god created life, then there is no need to be offended.

    What I find absolutely incomprehensible is that some people still, now in the 21st. century no less, say that evolution is "just a theory" and is not to be taken as accurate.
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  9. #119
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    So what? People have done much worse with no conviction or "FAITH" at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Atrcities like ...

    Afghanistan 19781992 1,750,000
    Albania 19441985 100,000
    Angola 19752002 125,000
    Bulgaria 19441989 222,000
    China/PRC 19232007 76,702,000
    Cuba 19591992 73,000
    Czechoslovakia 19481968 65,000
    Ethiopia 19741991 1,343,610
    France 17931794 40,000
    Greece 19461949 20,000
    Hungary 19481989 27,000
    Kampuchea/Cambodia 19731991 2,627,000
    Laos 19752007 93,000
    Mongolia 19262007 100,000
    Mozambique 19751990 118,000
    North Korea 19482007 3,163,000
    Poland 19451948 1,607,000
    Romania 19481987 438,000
    Spain (Republic) 19361939 102,000
    U.S.S.R. 19171987 61,911,000
    Vietnam 19452007 1,670,000
    Yugoslavia 19441980 1,072,000

    None of which had anything to do with religion. It was man's inhumanity to man, nothing more.
    Man's inhumanity? What does that even mean?

    I agree that people can do horrible things for other reasons that aren't caused or related to having faith in a particular religion or ideology. But why is that relevant to my response which criticizes the atrocities committed by those who justify their actions and beliefs by "faith"? You are trying to divert attention from the fact that people do horrible things because of faith.

    Faith is one of the WORST justifications (if not THE worst) for believing something. If someone does something because they believe reason and evidence supports their actions then at least a discussion/debate can occur. For people with faith, its not possible. You can't reason or debate someone who invokes "faith". This is why christianity, islam, and other faith based religions are divisive. Faith-based claims are often incompatible with eachother (even amongst competing sects). This leads to conflict because there is no way to reconcile, debate, or discuss differences because faith is NOT based on evidence or reason.

    "Faith" was the "reason" that Muslims flew airplanes into buildings. Make excuses and dance around the issue all you want. The evidence is incontrovertible. Turn on the internet and you can watch yourself as Muslims exclaim with pride that their faith in the Koran, Allah, and the paradise that awaits them in the afterlife, just before they blow themselves up. This faith-based certainty is NOT a problem exclusive to Muslims. Christians are IDENTICAL in their certainty.
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    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  10. #120
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    Re: In the US: Is the debate on evolution between scientists and the religious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    That depends on what you mean by "creationism". If you believe that Genesis is to be taken literally, then yes, I can see how you would find it offensive. If you believe that evolution was the way that god created life, then there is no need to be offended.

    What I find absolutely incomprehensible is that some people still, now in the 21st. century no less, say that evolution is "just a theory" and is not to be taken as accurate.
    It is a theory, a scientific theory.
    Just like, say, a mathematical theorem.

    Whatever, let them say it is "just a theory". But really, what more than a scientific theory could you want? They're about as close to fact as we get in science.
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