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Thread: Not defending the health care bill

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    Not defending the health care bill

    Here's the question, for liberals and conservatives alike.

    To preface this I'd like request two things:

    First, that I ask you to answer under the hypothetical that the Obama Administration did not come out and say that they would not defend DOMA in court. IE, I don't want the conservatives on here saying "Absolutely, if they did it we should to". I want the question answered based simply on itself and your feelings in a general sense as to how the various branches of government should work.

    Two, the poll is not necessarily asking for your PERSONAL opinion...IE would you agree with the principle of the action...but on a governmental procedural action. The govermental version of "I don't agree with what he's saying, but I agree with his right to say it". I'm not asking if you'd agree that it SHOULD be done, but rather should it be allowable.

    So here's the question:

    If Republicans win in 2012 and the new President decides that he believes the Health Care Law that was passed is unconstitutional, do you think it is acceptable and alright for him to have the Justice Department refuse to defend the law in court cases allowing it to be challenged in court without any proper defense of its legality being put forward by the state?

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    Re: Not defending the health care bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    If Republicans win in 2012 and the new President decides that he believes the Health Care Law that was passed is unconstitutional, do you think it is acceptable and alright for him to have the Justice Department refuse to defend the law in court cases allowing it to be challenged in court without any proper defense of its legality being put forward by the state?
    To say it would be acceptable is a ringing endorsement for Tyranny.

    Its not acceptable for The Kenyan Tyrant to pick and choose between the laws of the land.......just as it wont be for whichever Conservative candidate defeats The Kenyan Tyrant in 2012.
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    Re: Not defending the health care bill

    Interesting question, Zyph.

    Had to think about this one a bit and in the end I don't think President should be allowed to have the Justice Department refuse to defend a law in a court challenge. It's subverting the integrity of the courts. How can they make a fair and informed ruling if both sides are not presenting their best arguments? The Executive Branch is supposed to enforce the law and the Judicial Branch are supposed to Interpret the law. By refusing to defend a law facing a court challenge, the Executive Branch is no longer doing its job and makes it impossible for the Judicial Branch to properly do theirs.

    Not to mention, it sets a bad precednet. Once one party does it, you know the other party will as well. It becomes a backdoor way of repealing controversial legislation by just waiting for a new President who opposes said legislation to come into office and then challenge it in court, knowing he won't defend the law in question.
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    Re: Not defending the health care bill

    I'm so against the health care bill, my honest impulse was to vote yes in an "ends justifies the means" kind of idea. After reading your OP though, specifically this;
    "I want the question answered based simply on itself and your feelings in a general sense as to how the various branches of government should work.

    Two, the poll is not necessarily asking for your PERSONAL opinion...IE would you agree with the principle of the action...but on a governmental procedural action",
    I'd have to say, out of respect to our system of checks and balances, I could not support it (damn it).
    Last edited by X Factor; 02-24-11 at 06:06 PM.
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    Re: Not defending the health care bill

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I'm so against the health care bill, my honest impulse was to vote yes in an "ends justifies the means" kind of idea. After reading your OP though, specifically this; I'd have to say, out of respect to our system of checks and balances, I could not support it.
    Ditto.....
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    Re: Not defending the health care bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So here's the question:

    If Republicans win in 2012 and the new President decides that he believes the Health Care Law that was passed is unconstitutional, do you think it is acceptable and alright for him to have the Justice Department refuse to defend the law in court cases allowing it to be challenged in court without any proper defense of its legality being put forward by the state?
    As I understand it, such an action is legal, and as such if the president had solid evidence that a challenge to the law was highly likely to succeed, then yes, there is nothing wrong with not defending it.
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    Re: Not defending the health care bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    As I understand it, such an action is legal, and as such if the president had solid evidence that a challenge to the law was highly likely to succeed, then yes, there is nothing wrong with not defending it.
    So, where's your vote?
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    Re: Not defending the health care bill

    Had I not known this had happened before on numerous occasions, I would have said no.
    I voted yes.
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    Re: Not defending the health care bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Here's the question, for liberals and conservatives alike.

    To preface this I'd like request two things:

    First, that I ask you to answer under the hypothetical that the Obama Administration did not come out and say that they would not defend DOMA in court. IE, I don't want the conservatives on here saying "Absolutely, if they did it we should to". I want the question answered based simply on itself and your feelings in a general sense as to how the various branches of government should work.

    Two, the poll is not necessarily asking for your PERSONAL opinion...IE would you agree with the principle of the action...but on a governmental procedural action. The govermental version of "I don't agree with what he's saying, but I agree with his right to say it". I'm not asking if you'd agree that it SHOULD be done, but rather should it be allowable.

    So here's the question:

    If Republicans win in 2012 and the new President decides that he believes the Health Care Law that was passed is unconstitutional, do you think it is acceptable and alright for him to have the Justice Department refuse to defend the law in court cases allowing it to be challenged in court without any proper defense of its legality being put forward by the state?
    One thing to bring up, the law book are full of laws that have not been repealed but remain unenforced because they are stupid. There is precedent for this. However, I am on the fence about the apprpriateness of handling bad laws this way. I feel its better to repeal them.

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    Re: Not defending the health care bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    If Republicans win in 2012 and the new President decides that he believes the Health Care Law that was passed is unconstitutional, do you think it is acceptable and alright for him to have the Justice Department refuse to defend the law in court cases allowing it to be challenged in court without any proper defense of its legality being put forward by the state?
    I'd have to say yes.

    Otherwise, you would in principle have to strip every prosecutor at every level of government of the power to decide who to prosecute for violating the law and who not to prosecute.

    I do not believe that it is the government's obligation to defend a law (no matter the law) in court any more than I believe it is the prosecutor's obligation to prosecute each and every technical violation of the law, or the obligation of every defendant to take their charges before a jury of their peers.

    If there's a law requiring any of those three things, I'm unaware of it and that would change my answer to some extent.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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