View Poll Results: Would you support the action posted below?

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Thread: Not defending the health care bill

  1. #11
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    Re: Not defending the health care bill

    The question however is not about having no prosecutors that will defend the law TED, but having the POTUS dictating to the Justice Department that they will not defend it, regardless of the feeling of the prosecutors. I understand your point, but that is not what this thread is asking about.

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    Re: Not defending the health care bill

    Okay.

    Well.

    My understanding is that the President is in charge of the Justice Department, just like the President is in charge of a lot of departments. Congress has fobbed a lot of authority off on the executive branch, and it does not exist in a vacuum -- there is a chain of command.

    Assistant DAs have to take orders from DAs, and so on up the food chain.

    My answer is the same.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Not defending the health care bill

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Okay.

    Well.

    My understanding is that the President is in charge of the Justice Department, just like the President is in charge of a lot of departments. Congress has fobbed a lot of authority off on the executive branch, and it does not exist in a vacuum -- there is a chain of command.

    Assistant DAs have to take orders from DAs, and so on up the food chain.

    My answer is the same.
    I don't think your analogy is the same. It isn't about prosecutors having discretion, if anything, this takes away discretion by saying, no, you can't enforce this law because I disagree with it. If the DA in your jurisdiction came out and said, "I disagree with our DWI laws, so I'm barring anyone in my office from prosecuting them." Would you support that?
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    Re: Not defending the health care bill

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I don't think your analogy is the same. It isn't about prosecutors having discretion, if anything, this takes away discretion by saying, no, you can't enforce this law because I disagree with it. If the DA in your jurisdiction came out and said, "I disagree with our DWI laws, so I'm barring anyone in my office from prosecuting them." Would you support that?
    No, I wouldn't support it, but that's his prerogative and I'd express my disagreement with how he exercises it in the next election.

    The prerogative to defend a law or prosecute a lawbreaker is essentially the same, and the decision (or delegation of the decision) ultimately rests with the guy at the top of the food chain. When the food chain is really really long, these kinds of decisions are typically made further down the line instead of by the man in charge because the man in charge is very busy -- not because he doesn't have a right to make those decisions himself.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Not defending the health care bill

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    No, I wouldn't support it, but that's his prerogative and I'd express my disagreement with how he exercises it in the next election.
    Exactly. The use of this "power" is as best I can find out legal, though used rarely. I don't have a problem with a president using the power they have. I might disagree with the particular reasoning and think he is making a mistake in doing it, but he is still within his rights that he got by being elected.

    It's the difference between saying Bush made a mistake in going to war with Iraq, and saying Bush broke the law to do it.
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    Re: Not defending the health care bill

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    No, I wouldn't support it, but that's his prerogative and I'd express my disagreement with how he exercises it in the next election.
    Well look at the poll question again. It's whether you would support the action, not whether you agree that it's within his prerogative. So how do you reconcile your vote with this post? Could it be because you just agree with Obama on the DOMA thing so you're engaging in some result oriented rationalization?
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    Re: Not defending the health care bill

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Well look at the poll question again. It's whether you would support the action, not whether you agree that it's within his prerogative. So how do you reconcile your vote with this post? Could it be because you just agree with Obama on the DOMA thing so you're engaging in some result oriented rationalization?
    Actually, if you were paying attention, the actual question was:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    If Republicans win in 2012 and the new President decides that he believes the Health Care Law that was passed is unconstitutional, do you think it is acceptable and alright for him to have the Justice Department refuse to defend the law in court cases allowing it to be challenged in court without any proper defense of its legality being put forward by the state?
    Emphasis mine.

    I think it's fine for the President to exercise what discretion is available to him, since it's the same discretion available to law enforcers at all levels of government.. That doesn't mean I'd agree with it every time it happens or reward him with my vote.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Not defending the health care bill

    Not investigating it's validity would be more unconstitutional.
    "After all, you know, there are worse things in life than death. I mean, if you've ever spent an evening with an insurance salesman, you know exactly what I mean."
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    Re: Not defending the health care bill

    To Clarify...

    I'm not asking if its legal or not.

    And I'm not asking if you would agree with its use specifically to the Health Care Law.

    But if you agree with the use of the tactic in general. Essentially, do you condone or think such a tactic is acceptable. Mind you, there's things at times people find unacceptable that are completely legal (and vise versa), and its COMPLETELY legitimate to state "Its legal, so I'm okay with it being used". But I'm not necessarily expecting people to say "yes, I think its okay to use this tactic" simply because that tactic is legal.

  10. #20
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    Re: Not defending the health care bill

    Generally speaking, I think this kind of discretion is essential for the continued functioning of the justice system, so unless we come up with a better alternative or a well-defined method for regulating its use, this is the best there is.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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