View Poll Results: Is Collective Bargaining in the Public Sector a Right or is it a Privilege?

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  • Collective Bargaining, at least in the public sector is a fundamental human right

    13 19.70%
  • Collective Bargaining in the public sector is a privilege.

    41 62.12%
  • Other, the issue is more complex than that (Explain)

    12 18.18%
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Thread: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

  1. #61
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    I think it is ludicrous to assume that collective bargaining on the part of public sector (government employee) unions is a fundamental human right. Collective bargaining on the part of private sector unions is a right precisely because it is private. But public sector employees are paid by the taxpayer (ie the voter). Their wages should be determined by the voters' elected representatives. In terms of collective bargaining procedures, the public employees have no right beyond that to petition the government, a right maintained by every U.S. citizen.

  2. #62
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Workers certainly have a right to form voluntary associations at their place of employment and they without question have a right to speak about their grievances with their employers, including through representatives chosen by voluntary associations, as well as entering into written agreements with their employers. The fact people are working for the government does not somehow give government any ability to deprive them of these rights.
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  3. #63
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    Workers certainly have a right to form voluntary associations at their place of employment and they without question have a right to speak about their grievances with their employers, including through representatives chosen by voluntary associations, as well as entering into written agreements with their employers. The fact people are working for the government does not somehow give government any ability to deprive them of these rights.
    Even in the absence of collectve bargaining, public sector workers already have the right to form voluntary associations and lobbies on their own behalf. I know that the situation isn't entirely analogous, but the fact that military personnel work for a particular organization necessarily means that they have to cede some of their first amendment rights regarding free speech. I'm wondering if a similar standard should or shouldn't be applied here. Again, the floor is open for debate and I'm still kinda sitting on the fence on this issue.

  4. #64
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Even in the absence of collectve bargaining, public sector workers already have the right to form voluntary associations and lobbies on their own behalf. I know that the situation isn't entirely analogous, but the fact that military personnel work for a particular organization necessarily means that they have to cede some of their first amendment rights regarding free speech. I'm wondering if a similar standard should or shouldn't be applied here. Again, the floor is open for debate and I'm still kinda sitting on the fence on this issue.
    No one cedes any of their rights no matter the organization they join. Collective bargaining only refers to negotiating on an agreement between employee and employer. Of course, one could argue that private employers have every right to tell their employees to go to hell, but the government is not a private employer and it does not change that banning collective bargaining itself is nothing short of an infringement on the natural right to liberty.
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  5. #65
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    No one cedes any of their rights no matter the organization they join. Collective bargaining only refers to negotiating on an agreement between employee and employer. Of course, one could argue that private employers have every right to tell their employees to go to hell, but the government is not a private employer and it does not change that banning collective bargaining itself is nothing short of an infringement on the natural right to liberty.
    So federal employees, and many state employees have had their rights infringed?

  6. #66
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    It's neither. It's something you fight for.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #67
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    It shouldn't be either a right OR a privilege. It should be illegal.
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  8. #68
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    CB is not something recognized as a right in the constitution nor does it come within the 9th amendment. if it exists it is due to statutory law which can (and should) be changed to disallow it.



  9. #69
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    It doesn't change the fact that managers negotiate with other people's money.
    Why it's not even close to being the same argument:

    1. They are legally obligated to maximize return to shareholders
    2. It's 100% voluntary, you can get in and out at nearly any time

    It's not not just different, it's different in every meaningful way. I think you understand that a great many, let's say, conservative and tea party advocates do not in fact voluntarily want politicians to take money from them, or to spend it in the ways they do. They also do not like how so many government programs are unsustainably in the market because people don't actually value them enough to work for them.

  10. #70
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I've never been particularly passionate about labor, and worker's rights (I know, weird for a liberal, right?), but what's currently going on in Wisconsin caused me to dig a little deeper into the issue. Given the current dearth of intelligent polls on meaningful issues, I thought I'd use this issue to make my own first original thread.

    On one hand, I believe that certain segments of the public sector are underpaid, while others are overpaid compared to their private sector counterparts. However, it also can't be denied that collective bargaining in the public sector has placed a certain burden on the taxpayers in the state. Public sector workers differ from those in the private sector in that they serve at the pleasure of the people, not some tyrannical or dictatorial management. The taxpayers of the state are essentially paying the workers and should have a say in issues such as pay and benefits. In addition, government workers are already free to form workers' associations and lobby for their own causes.

    I personally believe that collective bargaining in the public sector should be a privilege, rather than a fundamental human right.
    I voted "collective bargaining in the public sector is a fundamental human right."

    No organization has the right to abuse worker and working conditions. Not a private company, and not a government service.

    Labor organizations are how workers assemble to help protect them against such abuses. Now, the system isn't perfect - but then again, neither is a lack of collective bargaining.

    I haven't read the rest of this thread, but that's what I think regarding the OP.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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