View Poll Results: Is Collective Bargaining in the Public Sector a Right or is it a Privilege?

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  • Collective Bargaining, at least in the public sector is a fundamental human right

    13 19.70%
  • Collective Bargaining in the public sector is a privilege.

    41 62.12%
  • Other, the issue is more complex than that (Explain)

    12 18.18%
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Thread: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

  1. #51
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    I'm kinda sick of people claiming everything is a right.


  2. #52
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I've never been particularly passionate about labor, and worker's rights (I know, weird for a liberal, right?), but what's currently going on in Wisconsin caused me to dig a little deeper into the issue. Given the current dearth of intelligent polls on meaningful issues, I thought I'd use this issue to make my own first original thread.

    On one hand, I believe that certain segments of the public sector are underpaid, while others are overpaid compared to their private sector counterparts. However, it also can't be denied that collective bargaining in the public sector has placed a certain burden on the taxpayers in the state. Public sector workers differ from those in the private sector in that they serve at the pleasure of the people, not some tyrannical or dictatorial management. The taxpayers of the state are essentially paying the workers and should have a say in issues such as pay and benefits. In addition, government workers are already free to form workers' associations and lobby for their own causes.

    I personally believe that collective bargaining in the public sector should be a privilege, rather than a fundamental human right.
    I think it can be seen as a right. A man has the right to reap the benefits of the sweat of his brow, does he not? These collective bargaining agreements is just a man trading his labor for money and arguing about details for it. The workers get together to collectivize their voice so that they can best reap the most benefit from their labor. Like it or not, there is right to contract. A man can strike a contract with another and details need to be determined. Workers should have the ability to have a say in that contract over the conditions and pay for their labor. Collectivizing it gives a bit of that power to the workers along with streamlining the system so that you do not individually have to work out contracts with each worker.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  3. #53
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Those who say that Wisconsin is trying to cure its budget deficit on the backs of unions are misguided. That's nothing more than a talking point. Everything needs scrutiny. Everyone is going to have to sacrifice. No more golden compensation programs for the public sector is a much-needed beginning.
    The unions already offered financial concessions. At this point, its about destroying the union itself.

  4. #54
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    I'm kinda sick of people claiming everything is a right.
    Technically the right to unionize is widely interpreted to already have been covered in the First Amendment.

  5. #55
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    The unions already offered financial concessions. At this point, its about destroying the union itself.
    Like to their capitulation, please. I've asked four times now and gotten a link from 2009. Post please? Please?
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  6. #56
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    As most of you can see, I'm kind of sitting on the fence on this issue and I can definitely see both sides. But what I can definitively say is that going after collective bargaining itself is hardly the issue Wisconsin should be tackling if they're sincere about fixing their deficit.

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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Like to their capitulation, please. I've asked four times now and gotten a link from 2009. Post please? Please?
    Wis. governor rejects union offer of concessions for bargaining rights -

    This is just what I found with a preliminary google search, and since it's the ****ty USAtoday it's not very big on details, but it's clear that the unions DID offer concessions.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 02-22-11 at 02:15 PM.

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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Like to their capitulation, please. I've asked four times now and gotten a link from 2009. Post please? Please?
    A quick jaunt to google news gives me :

    Wisconsin layoffs soon if governor's proposal doesn't pass - USATODAY.com

    Public employees have said they would agree to concessions Walker wants that would amount to an 8% pay cut on average, but they want to retain their collective bargaining rights. One Republican senator also has floated an alternative that would make the elimination of those rights temporary.

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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I think it can be seen as a right. A man has the right to reap the benefits of the sweat of his brow, does he not? These collective bargaining agreements is just a man trading his labor for money and arguing about details for it. The workers get together to collectivize their voice so that they can best reap the most benefit from their labor. Like it or not, there is right to contract. A man can strike a contract with another and details need to be determined. Workers should have the ability to have a say in that contract over the conditions and pay for their labor. Collectivizing it gives a bit of that power to the workers along with streamlining the system so that you do not individually have to work out contracts with each worker.
    I agree with this sentiment to a certain extent, but I will cite one of my previous posts (Post #44 of this thread): I believe in the public sector the unions' bargaining power has exceeded that of their employers (the public):

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I agree, but nevertheless it's easier to cash in your money and sell the stock than it is to vote for competent politicians or vote with your feet. In the long run, unions will always be more powerful than the people for the simple reason that unions are organized and usually of one mind, while voters, at large, are not. In the public sector, unions will always win because the have more bargaining power than the other side in the long run. Even if their wages and benefits have risen to a level that's more than fair, there isn't much stopping them from going further unless it's something pretty catastrophic like a budget crisis.

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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I agree with this sentiment to a certain extent, but I will cite one of my previous posts (Post #44 of this thread): I believe in the public sector the unions' bargaining power has exceeded that of their employers (the public):
    Oh and it can. There's the rub, because you don't want to completely hamstring labor; but you don't want to bend business over the barrel either. So somehow you have to strike a balance, and that is really tough to do, particularly given the dynamics of the system. But to the base question as to whether or not it is a right, I think there is good argument for it.

    Unions have a purpose and a need, but they are essentially a form of government; and like government it must be controlled and constrained. Otherwise, they get out of hand and we see what that looks like. But should we throw the baby out with the bath water? I think there's plenty of good use still left in unions, we just need to try to make the system a bit more reasonable.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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