View Poll Results: Is Collective Bargaining in the Public Sector a Right or is it a Privilege?

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  • Collective Bargaining, at least in the public sector is a fundamental human right

    13 19.70%
  • Collective Bargaining in the public sector is a privilege.

    41 62.12%
  • Other, the issue is more complex than that (Explain)

    12 18.18%
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Thread: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

  1. #151
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Unfortunately, that would also, by necessity, require the right not to be in a union, which simply isn't the case, apparently. You cannot refuse to join a union in a union shop.
    a minor semantic point

    an employee in a bargaining unit - located in a right to work state - can refuse to join a union. they are not obligated to pay union dues. however, the union must represent this bargaining unit member just as if that employee were a dues paying union member

    but, the net effect is as you indicate. the employee represented by a bargaining unit cannot negotiate for him/herself. the union is the exclusive representative for all bargaining unit employees .... those who pay dues and those who do not
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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  2. #152
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    As an aside, I have the original Frost-Nixon interviews waiting for me at home...

    I am anxious to see the truth of how Frost out maneuvered him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    UMMMM...if it allowed collective bargaining, it would no longer be a right to work state.
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  3. #153
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amazed View Post
    Your question pre supposes a Constitutional Right to Strike...I don't find that in The Constitution...now those Unions (Public) are free to ASK for whatever they want..they are free to walk off the Job if they want...but we are free to replace them if they do.
    No presupposition, just trying to get back to the basics that the thread is based on. Simple question. No answer?

  4. #154
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I've never been particularly passionate about labor, and worker's rights (I know, weird for a liberal, right?), but what's currently going on in Wisconsin caused me to dig a little deeper into the issue. Given the current dearth of intelligent polls on meaningful issues, I thought I'd use this issue to make my own first original thread.

    On one hand, I believe that certain segments of the public sector are underpaid, while others are overpaid compared to their private sector counterparts. However, it also can't be denied that collective bargaining in the public sector has placed a certain burden on the taxpayers in the state. Public sector workers differ from those in the private sector in that they serve at the pleasure of the people, not some tyrannical or dictatorial management. The taxpayers of the state are essentially paying the workers and should have a say in issues such as pay and benefits. In addition, government workers are already free to form workers' associations and lobby for their own causes.

    I personally believe that collective bargaining in the public sector should be a privilege, rather than a fundamental human right.
    In practice unions lead to a lot of gymnastics but in principle they are still necessary. Put it plainly, nobody cares about employees.
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  5. #155
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    Workers certainly have a right to form voluntary associations at their place of employment
    Can I enter your home with signs and protest? We have to secure property rights as well as the Bill of Rights. Employees should be allowed the freedom to assemble peacefully so long as they do it on a public domain. A private business is still a private business. Just as they have the right to refuse service to anyone, they also have the right to escort rowdy protesters from their property.

    and they without question have a right to speak about their grievances with their employers, including through representatives chosen by voluntary associations, as well as entering into written agreements with their employers. The fact people are working for the government does not somehow give government any ability to deprive them of these rights.
    Ok, we're talking about public sector unions. They have a right to petition the government for an increase in wage or what have you. They should be allowed to do this individually or by association. I have yet to actually see any evidence that Walker is restricting the 1st Amendment rights of the public sector workers. If the proposal is passed as law, does that mean they face criminal punishment if they attempt to petition the government, or to assemble peacefully, or to speak freely? I highly doubt those things are in the proposal.

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    That's very similiar to the communist idea. Government dictates pay, workers do the work, and don't complain.
    Governments do dictate the pay of all government workers. That's how it works. That's what I said. You're implying that I feel the government should dictate the pay of ALL people. I do not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Read... the... thread... Elija said that he supported a system where employees didn't have CB or ability to make demands. Somebody suggested that systems where employees do not have ability to make collective bargains or makes demands is used in communist systems. In addition communist countries use this system far more often than free societies. Collective bargain is by no means a communist invention. It's not even a capitalist invention. It's existed even as far back as feudalism.
    I'm still not getting it. Where in the governor's proposal is the 1st Amendment rights of workers being violated?

  6. #156
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    It is a right in so much as it is the right of the individual to decide how he or she wants to negotiate her wage. If this means individually or collectively matters not. Banning or denying collective bargaining is a direct attack on personal freedoms.
    PeteEU

  7. #157
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    It is a right in so much as it is the right of the individual to decide how he or she wants to negotiate her wage. If this means individually or collectively matters not. Banning or denying collective bargaining is a direct attack on personal freedoms.
    So if two people decide they want to "bargain collectively" with their employer, the employer doesn't have the right to fire their asses? I don't think it's quite that simple.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  8. #158
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    So if two people decide they want to "bargain collectively" with their employer, the employer doesn't have the right to fire their asses? I don't think it's quite that simple.
    The employer does have that right, public sector included.

  9. #159
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    So if two people decide they want to "bargain collectively" with their employer, the employer doesn't have the right to fire their asses? I don't think it's quite that simple.
    Of course he does if the reasons are just. Now is "bargain collectively" a just cause, is another matter. In the US most likely, everywhere else, it is not.

    Point is, no one can take away the individuals right to bargain for his or her wages in whatever way he or she wants, and it should in no way cost (in my opinion) the job of said employee just because he or she is joining others in collectively bargaining. It is in many ways the same principle, that just because a woman gets pregnant then the company can not fire her because of this. Or that the person is a muslim, jew, black, white, gay or straight.

    Like it or not, collective bargaining came around because of the relative power in negotiations of the employer vs the employee and the abuses the employer did to the employee because of this power. Collective bargaining evens up the playing field, at least in theory.

    And btw, this principle goes both ways. I have fought many battles against union members who demanded that all employees at a company were unionised under a certain union. That is why in my home country we have laws that prevent unions for demanding such things and respects the right of the employee to be in a union of his or her choice or not at all. We actually have a free market for unions in Denmark, ranging from political independent unions to religious based unions (yea sounds freaky I know) to the more traditional unions.
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    As far as I am concerned it is a privledge. A job is a job no matter if it is public or private. People should be paid based on the current marketability of <insert job here>, not on how much a bunch of loud mouths think they should be paid better than the rest of society.
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