View Poll Results: Is Collective Bargaining in the Public Sector a Right or is it a Privilege?

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  • Collective Bargaining, at least in the public sector is a fundamental human right

    13 19.70%
  • Collective Bargaining in the public sector is a privilege.

    41 62.12%
  • Other, the issue is more complex than that (Explain)

    12 18.18%
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Thread: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

  1. #121
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    You are pretty touchy for someone so sure of himself.

    (shrugs)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Read... the... thread... Elija said that he supported a system where employees didn't have CB or ability to make demands. Somebody suggested that systems where employees do not have ability to make collective bargains or makes demands is used in communist systems. In addition communist countries use this system far more often than free societies. Collective bargain is by no means a communist invention. It's not even a capitalist invention. It's existed even as far back as feudalism.
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    People consider too many things "rights" these days in my opinion. Oh well, doesn't make it so.
    I may have already posted this

    Teacher's Unions/Collective Bargaining: Encyclopedia of Everyday Law

    Constitutional Considerations Regarding Unions

    The First Amendment of the BILL OF RIGHTS provides: "Congress shall make no law . . . prohibiting . . . the right of people peaceably to assemble." This right, as applied to the states through the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution, has been interpreted to give teachers and other employees the right to free association, including the right to join a union, such as the National Education Association or the American Federation of Teachers. However, the Constitution does not grant teachers the right to bargain collectively with employers. This right is based on applicable provisions in state constitutions, federal statutes, or state statutes. Similarly, teachers do not have a constitutional right to strike, though other federal law or state law may permit teachers to strike.
    A fair point, I wasn't stating my own opinion so much as voicing that of most other people. I do however think the Constitution is flawed in this respect and it shouldn't be looked upon as the ultimate authority on what constitutes "fundamental rights." I mean for the longest time women and blacks couldn't vote, things could always change.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 02-22-11 at 11:57 PM.

  3. #123
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    People consider too many things "rights" these days in my opinion. Oh well, doesn't make it so.
    Actually, Barb, the 9th amendment makes it so. The 9th amendment says "The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." Which basically means that while the 1st-8th amendments are our rights, we still have rights that are not specifically mentioned in the Constitution, thus, arguably, people can claim virtually anything as a right and cite the 9th amendment.

    Thank you American GovPol class.
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  4. #124
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    I don't particularly agree with Barb on most things, but she is correct when she says the Constitution doesn't specifically enumerate the right to collective bargaining. Nevertheless:

    While the United States Constitution's First Amendment identifies the rights to assemble and to petition the government, the text of the First Amendment does not make specific mention of a right to association. Nevertheless, the United States Supreme Court held in NAACP v. Alabama that the freedom of association is an essential part of the Freedom of Speech because, in many cases, people can engage in effective speech only when they join with others.
    - Wikipedia

  5. #125
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    There's nothing special about you so why would I use any term of endearment towards you? You're just a generic conservative who supports corporate enslavement of the masses.
    You're the one who finally figured me out.
    Now, could you tell me to Piss Off Troll one more time? It warms my heart so.
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  6. #126
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    Texans don't have collective bargaining and we are NOT communists.
    Does the Texan government dictates pay without negotiation with the employee being hired, and forbid them to complain about this condition?
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

  7. #127
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    People consider too many things "rights" these days in my opinion. Oh well, doesn't make it so.
    I may have already posted this

    Teacher's Unions/Collective Bargaining: Encyclopedia of Everyday Law

    Constitutional Considerations Regarding Unions

    The First Amendment of the BILL OF RIGHTS provides: "Congress shall make no law . . . prohibiting . . . the right of people peaceably to assemble." This right, as applied to the states through the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution, has been interpreted to give teachers and other employees the right to free association, including the right to join a union, such as the National Education Association or the American Federation of Teachers. However, the Constitution does not grant teachers the right to bargain collectively with employers. This right is based on applicable provisions in state constitutions, federal statutes, or state statutes. Similarly, teachers do not have a constitutional right to strike, though other federal law or state law may permit teachers to strike.
    TEXAS & N. O. R. CO. v. BROTHERHOOD OF RY. & S. S. CLERKS, 281 U.S. 548 - SCOTUS declares the use of bargaining representatives by multiple employees to be constitutionally protected.

    Those who would destroy or further limit the rights of organized labor -- those who would cripple collective bargaining or prevent organization of the unorganized -- do a disservice to the cause of democracy.

    Fifty years or so ago the American Labor Movement was little more than a group of dreamers, and look at it now. From coast to coast, in factories, stores, warehouse and business establishments of all kinds, industrial democracy is at work.

    Employees, represented by free and democratic trade unions of their own choosing, participate actively in determining their wages, hours and working conditions. Their living standards are the highest in the world. Their job rights are protected by collective bargaining agreements. They have fringe benefits that were unheard of less than a generation ago.

    Our labor unions are not narrow, self-seeking groups. They have raised wages, shortened hours and provided supplemental benefits. Through collective bargaining and grievance procedures, they have brought justice and democracy to the shop floor. But their work goes beyond their own jobs, and even beyond our borders.

    Our unions have fought for aid to education, for better housing, for development of our national resources, and for saving the family-sized farms. They have spoken, not for narrow self-interest, but for the public interest and for the people.

    -- John F. Kennedy * August 30, 1960
    In 1962, President John F. Kennedy signed Executive Order 10988, establishing the right of federal workers to engage in collective bargaining. Consequently, union membership among U.S. government employees soared from 13 percent in 1961 to 60 percent in the 1974. NFFE's membership also grew tremendously, roughly doubling during the same period from 80,000 members to 150,000 members.[7]
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  8. #128
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amazed View Post
    (smile) Uhhh, who has RESISTED merit based pay for decades

    The Unions.
    And how does this dispute the point that "lobby[ing] government to pay them more than the job is worth" is not "the only reason that the public unions exist"?


    Now, whatever you've been talking about...the OP is about Public Unions
    Then quote the OP, don't quote me and tell me what "we" have been talking about.


    What an idiotic thing to pick upon to try to derail a good thread. There's no rule that says private union cannot be brought up in public union thread as a comparison.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

  9. #129
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    Does the Texan government dictates pay without negotiation with the employee being hired, and forbid them to complain about this condition?
    She doesn't get it yet.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  10. #130
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    The fact is that union demands for salary, but more importantly pensions and healthcare, puts price pressure on companies that hire them and governments that employ public sectors. This prices US cars too high, allowing foreign imports to suck up market share (Michigan). This forces budget shortfalls in the billions to states (California). A non-union employee can always quit and go to another job. This may not be possible for single skilled employees with lots of unemployed people with the same skills.

    Poor California and Michigan - way to go Virginia!

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