View Poll Results: Is Collective Bargaining in the Public Sector a Right or is it a Privilege?

Voters
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  • Collective Bargaining, at least in the public sector is a fundamental human right

    13 19.70%
  • Collective Bargaining in the public sector is a privilege.

    41 62.12%
  • Other, the issue is more complex than that (Explain)

    12 18.18%
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Thread: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

  1. #101
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    No. I'm not. Do you know how replying works? If the person's quote is not in your post, you're not responding to their post. I replied to the question of unions without quoting anybody in specific. On the contrary , you like the newb that you are, interjected yourself into this thread and decided to quote my post in response to the question of unions.

    Now, piss off troll.
    Quote Originally Posted by Amazed View Post
    Here is the quote from the OP lil guy
    '
    On one hand, I believe that certain segments of the public sector are underpaid, while others are overpaid compared to their private sector counterparts. However, it also can't be denied that collective bargaining in the public sector has placed a certain burden on the taxpayers in the state.

    What were you saying now?
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    Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?Both of you knock it off, now, or you will receive further consequences.
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  2. #102
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Other. It's a Ponzi scheme.

  3. #103
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Without unions, corporations have the annoying habit of oppressing their lower level employees to the breaking point. Laws and regulations be damned. Anyone who complains is fired and the case is settled out of court without much real repercussion to the employer.
    this discussion is about public sector unions



  4. #104
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Careful, he yelled at me when I pointed that out.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    this discussion is about public sector unions
    Obama is NOT 50 feet tall, he is ONE inch deep.
    Mark Levin

  5. #105
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Even FDR, the hero of modern day private unions, was against public unions.
    FDR: “The process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service... I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place (in the public sector).... A strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government.”

    New York Supreme Court Judge: "To tolerate or recognize any combination of civil service employees of the government as a labor organization or union is not only incompatible with the spirit of democracy, but inconsistent with every principle upon which our government is founded. Nothing is more dangerous to public welfare than to admit that hired servants of the State can dictate to the government the hours, the wages and conditions under which they will carry on essential services vital to the welfare, safety, and security of the citizen. To admit as true that government employees have power to halt or check the functions of government unless their demands are satisfied, is to transfer to them all legislative, executive and judicial power. Nothing would be more ridiculous."

    The problem is that the government cannot be held accountable to fight back against public unions. In the private sector there is a divide between management and unions. In the public sector there often is an agreement between politicians and unions. Unions give their support to the politician who then makes promises with taxpayer money.
    Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

  6. #106
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amazed View Post
    Oh please....we are talking about Public Sector jobs...this is a red herring.
    Maybe you are. I have been talking about unions (both private and public) for a while now.

    And still wrong:

    Union president makes new proposals for teacher evaluations, discipline - washingtonpost.com

    The president of the nation's second-largest teachers union on Tuesday proposed a new way to incorporate student test scores into teacher evaluations and said she has asked a well-known mediator to develop methods of expediting disciplinary cases against teachers.

    Randi Weingarten of the 1.4 million-member American Federation of Teachers gave a speech in downtown Washington that union officials described as a major effort to address flash points in labor-management relations.

    The AFT, Weingarten said, wants "a fair, transparent and expedient process to identify and deal with ineffective teachers. But [we] know we won't have that if we don't have an evaluation system that is comprehensive and robust and really tells us who is or is not an effective teacher."

    Weingarten, also a key player in the District's drawn-out teacher contract talks, outlined a four-step approach to teacher evaluations: States should adopt standards for what teachers should know and be able to do; teachers should be assessed through multiple measures, including student test scores that gauge individual academic progress; administrators should be held accountable for putting the standards into motion; and teachers should receive help through mentoring and professional development.

    But Weingarten added a caveat on the use of test scores. She said that teachers should not be evaluated on results that compare their current classes with the previous year's classes, which is the system states typically use under the No Child Left Behind law. That would appear to disqualify much, perhaps most, of the currently available state testing data from use in evaluation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

  7. #107
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    this discussion is about public sector unions
    That was in response to this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I think unions in general have outlived their usefulness. Unions as an idea much like communism seems pretty good at face value. The problem is the human corruption and favoritism infiltrate every aspect. This is why organized crime was able to get involved and stay involved for so long. It is power and money, and thus corruptible.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  8. #108
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amazed View Post
    Careful, he yelled at me when I pointed that out.
    Still trolling? What part of this didn't you understand:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    pssssst. read the beginning of the thread. People were talking about the usefulness of unions in general. My post is in respose to that Newb.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  9. #109
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Because the only reason that the public unions exist is to lobby government to pay them more than the job is worth. If they didn't, then they would have no reason for existing. I'm all for paying teachers more if we needed more qualified teachers and it was an effective way of recruiting them...but the unions have also ensured that there will be no merit pay.

    So every time the government overpays for public services, whether because of unions or lobbyists or old-fashioned corruption, that means that there is less taxpayer money that could be spent on something worthwhile. Government services exist to benefit the PUBLIC, not to benefit the government employees.
    Not sure who says more than it is worth, or by what standard. but aren't they still employees, just like a private employee, negotiating a wage for the job, and benefits that make it more desirable to work there.

    And merit pay. Think about this for a minute. All students are not equal as all parents aren't. If I can teach a place with excellent parents, and few obsticles for my students, and get merit pay because the job is easier, as oppsoed to more difficult jobs, with a problem population, in which merit pay will be harder, where would I work?

    I know we tend to think about this problem in simplistic terms, assuming platitiudes convey truth, but merit pay can be seen as counter productive, especially if you have areas havng a problem gettiing good teachers.

    However, the point is what makes this different than the private sector? I see nothing in what you say that shows me a difference.

    But I do thank you for answering.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #110
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    Re: Is Collective Bargaining in the public sector a Right, or is it a Privilege?

    I already quoted the OP, it wasn't about Private Sector Unions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Still trolling? What part of this didn't you understand:
    Obama is NOT 50 feet tall, he is ONE inch deep.
    Mark Levin

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