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Who Do You Think Has Done More Damage to the Country, Bush or Obama?

Who's worse Bush or Obama?

  • Bush

    Votes: 72 64.3%

  • Obama

    Votes: 40 35.7%
  • Total voters
    112
Bush sucked but Obama is worse. I find it humorous that some of you say that bush is responsible for two wars. Actually the terrorists are responsible for the war in afghanistan. The war in Afghanistan is a war of necessity and survival. Anybody who says otherwise probably wouldnt support any war in any circumstance. The war in Iraq was bogus, I know because i have been there and all we have accomplished was a pile of dead G.I.'s and a pile of debt, Bush was entirely responsible for that. However i think obama is more responsible for stripping our rights which is the most imortant thing to an American.
 
beholdaredhorse said:
Bush sucked but Obama is worse. I find it humorous that some of you say that bush is responsible for two wars. Actually the terrorists are responsible for the war in afghanistan. The war in Afghanistan is a war of necessity and survival. Anybody who says otherwise probably wouldnt support any war in any circumstance. The war in Iraq was bogus, I know because i have been there and all we have accomplished was a pile of dead G.I.'s and a pile of debt, Bush was entirely responsible for that. However i think obama is more responsible for stripping our rights which is the most imortant thing to an American.
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Ever read a little thing called the Patriot act?
How about the Homeland security color coded defence notice in case of attack?
How about Ridge's speech on in case of a bilogical attack try duck tape?

You do know that all of these and many more was approved by the then President of the United States, George W. Bush.
 
presluc said:
Ever read a little thing called the Patriot act?
How about the Homeland security color coded defence notice in case of attack?
How about Ridge's speech on in case of a bilogical attack try duck tape?

You do know that all of these and many more was approved by the then President of the United States, George W. Bush.
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The patriot act is in my opinion horrible I agree, however your other two points im not seeing how those particular things effect our rights so how about you elaborate...
 
beholdaredhorse said:
The patriot act is in my opinion horrible I agree, however your other two points im not seeing how those particular things effect our rights so how about you elaborate...
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I must apologise,

You see in my humble opinion the American people depend on leaders to make some hard desitsions in a time of chrises.

Duct tape for a biological attack, todays threat is orange??

I do not consider these good desisions.

To be fair I do not consider Obama's Insurance ad ... err I mean Health bill any better.

However as I have said numbers do not lie.

The lesser of two evils is Obama Bush he was worce for America.
 
Oh I definitely lean to the right, the traditional right whose values where far more connected to the current libertarian ideals. But is that really a concern, we are talking about the economic system not my views on how society should behave.

And once again i am confused by your statements (you might like to keep them simple but please give me enough information so I know what you are talking about.

Your first statement is right the government does run on money (how much is the real question)
Once again yes government money comes from either taxes, treasury stock, or the printing of more money (the second two have major inflationary issues so let's ignore them)
Your third statement is the only one I have an issue with. Your logic indicates that you believe the real solution to our financial difficulties is to take money out of individuals hands and send it to the government. Know here is where the economics of that concept fall apart. Each and every dollar you remove from the free market to pay taxes is lost capital. The less capital that can be invested in our capitalist system the lower our GDP will be thus fewer structural jobs and thus less tax revenue in the future. Causing a downward spiral of deflation that would collapse our entire system and cause an untold amount of misery. (doomsday scenario I know)

To truly elliminate our debt we must first eliminate the primary causes of said debt while allowing the free market to perform with the bare minimum of government regulation. The elimination of all non constitutionally stated federal responsibilities and their respective programs and agencies would result in massive surpluses we could use to pay down deficit, all the while individual capital has been left in the system allowing profit and growth to occur, thus more jobs and more tax revenue.

And trust me I'm a dual finance and econ major, all I do is follow the money :)
 
Mayor Snorkum said:
No.

If budget cuts are needed, spending is too high. Given that the left is having hernias over the thought that something as silly as NPR is getting cut, then the Left needs to get counseling and treatment for the their spendning addiction.
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I can understand budget cuts are sometime needed, but education, trade schools, come on??
 
I'm gonna say Bush.

70% of the mess we're in is because of Bush. He came into office with a 250billion dollar surplus, and left us in a recession, a Horrible reputation abroad, in two wars, major debt, horrendous corruption in businesses. Lack of response in Katrina... Shall I go on?

Obama has his F*** ups as well but so far I think he's done more good then bad. Every President has his ups and downs. Even Roosevelt made some S**** decisions.
 
Redress said:
I don't think you can really judge how much damage either has done for some years yet.
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This.

Saying which president has done more damage is saying that President Obama is the worst President ever. Both are completely wrong as we have yet to fully assess what either has done. For all we know, 20 years down the line the general public will all be talking about how great President Bush was.
 
Same opinion as always. Both act in narrowly parameters imposed by Washington's networking-centered political culture, the material demands of governing a superpower, and the unhelpful, poorly informed, and ever fluctuating expectations of the American people; the limitations of our political system, economic reality, and the American people are more to blame for America's decline than any president.

But the Bush Administration was more harmful because of the "Iraq Adventure," which it jerryrigged into existence out of the 9/11 tragedy.
 
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Arcadius said:
I'm going to keep my opinion out of the first post. I think the title pretty much sizes things up. George W. Bush vs. Barack Hussein Obama
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Obama has transformed the US extremly succesfull to an international Joke.
 
presluc said:
I can understand budget cuts are sometime needed, but education, trade schools, come on??
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But the Constitution? Come, you can't be serious about ignoring the Constitution everytime it's completely inconvenient for you, can you?

Not to mention the fact that Mayor Snorkum isn't responsible for the education of anyone he hasn't allowed to lay an ob on him
 
presluc said:
Strange I thought budget cuts came from less tax revenue due to less jobs.
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No.

Budget cuts come from spending less.

Lost revenue due is one reason to cut a budget.

That the spending is in violation of the law is a better reason.


As far as I'm concerned the left as well as the right both need counseling and treatment for their spending addiction.
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As far as the Mayor is concerned, people spending illegally on social engineering programs are all on the left. There isn't a whole heck of a lot of unconstitutional spending on the right side of the equation, not when it's compared to the education, welfare, and social security bills due.

Nor does your blind partisanship matter to a problem in accounting.

However 8 yrs with Bush? How much was the deficit in 2000, how much was the deficit in 2008? do the math
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Yes, Bush was a leftist. All of us know this, some of us admit it, some of us lie that it's not true.

Obama almost 4 yrs.
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Less than 2 1/2.

You can make excuses or plead bad luck but numbers are numbers.:peace
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Better yet, the Mayor can claim he's never voted for either leftist, and the Mayor certainly never supported any of their unconstitutional spending habits.
 
dadrone said:
I will say that Obama is better on a few things. Aka - trying to wind down the Iraq War is a good thing IMO. Also, I applaud his efforts to stop the raids on medical marijuana users who are in unambiguous compliance with state laws.
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Re the Iraq war: All Obama did was follow the plan that Bush had developed for winding dow the war in Iraq.

Re Marijuna: You do realize that it is against Federal law to posses or use Marijuna and that Federal law trumps State law. What Obama is doing is failing in his duties to uphold the laws of the United States. He could have used political capital to repeal the Marijuna laws when his party had full controll of both houses of congress but he didn't.
 
No doubt this Thread appeals to the right-wing loons (myself excluded).
 
Yukon said:
No doubt this Thread appeals to the right-wing loons (myself excluded).
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Well with that avitar comrade we will be sure to put a commie thread;)
 
Mayor Snorkum said:
But the Constitution? Come, you can't be serious about ignoring the Constitution everytime it's completely inconvenient for you, can you?

Not to mention the fact that Mayor Snorkum isn't responsible for the education of anyone he hasn't allowed to lay an ob on him
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I don't know if Mayor Snorkum is familiar with the next generation or not.
I don't know if Mayor Snorkum cares about America or just Mayor Snorkum.

However, this much I do know, the next generation will some day run this America, it would be wise to have as many educated people in the next generation as possible to compete in the oncoming globalization.
 
Mayor Snorkum said:
No.

Budget cuts come from spending less.

Lost revenue due is one reason to cut a budget.

That the spending is in violation of the law is a better reason.




As far as the Mayor is concerned, people spending illegally on social engineering programs are all on the left. There isn't a whole heck of a lot of unconstitutional spending on the right side of the equation, not when it's compared to the education, welfare, and social security bills due.

Nor does your blind partisanship matter to a problem in accounting.



Yes, Bush was a leftist. All of us know this, some of us admit it, some of us lie that it's not true.



Less than 2 1/2.



Better yet, the Mayor can claim he's never voted for either leftist, and the Mayor certainly never supported any of their unconstitutional spending habits.
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I can respond to that with a statement nothing more.

George W. Bush ran on the Republican ticket, George W. Bush left office on the Republican ticket, supporting McCain and Palin as a Republican.

Now you can say Bush was a leftist, Bush was a neocon, Bush acted like a Democrat, whatever?
However facts do not lie, George W. Bush was and remains a Republican.
 
presluc said:
I don't know if Mayor Snorkum is familiar with the next generation or not.
I don't know if Mayor Snorkum cares about America or just Mayor Snorkum.

However, this much I do know, the next generation will some day run this America, it would be wise to have as many educated people in the next generation as possible to compete in the oncoming globalization.
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It would be wise to educate the next generation what an American really is and how they can aspire to being real Americans, not little robot sociailst globalists.

That means they need to learn the real history of this nation, why it was formed, how it was formed, the role of the real Constitution in preserving their freedoms and how the violations of the Constitution in the 20th and 21st Centuries have made them liable for a hundred trillion dollars in debt and obligations. They need to be taught the lesson their parents ignored, that they have to work for what they get and that no one should recieve anything if they're not willing to work for it.

The children paying 100,000,000,000,000 dollars in taxes over their lifetimes for benefits accrued to others will be particularly sensitive to such lessons. The nation should start teaching it's children these truths if it wishes to survive.
 
presluc said:
I can respond to that with a statement nothing more.

George W. Bush ran on the Republican ticket, George W. Bush left office on the Republican ticket, supporting McCain and Palin as a Republican.

Now you can say Bush was a leftist, Bush was a neocon, Bush acted like a Democrat, whatever?
However facts do not lie, George W. Bush was and remains a Republican.
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And so you're saying that only Democrats can be leftist socialist America harming pimps selling out for cash and false idoelogy? You're now claiming that Republicans are the embodiment of all that is fine and healthy and beautiful in America, that no Republican ever have the moral failing to believe in retarded leftist causes?

Well, good for you.

But, the truth of the matter is that left and right aren't constrained by party allegiences. Well, okay, no one one the right, no one who cares about America, is a Democrat. However, there are plenty of leftist socialist Republicans. Bush was one, McCain another, there are traitor Senators all over the place, and in the House, too.

The real world isn't anywhere near as poifect as you wish.
 
Mayor Snorkum said:
It would be wise to educate the next generation what an American really is and how they can aspire to being real Americans, not little robot sociailst globalists.

That means they need to learn the real history of this nation, why it was formed, how it was formed, the role of the real Constitution in preserving their freedoms and how the violations of the Constitution in the 20th and 21st Centuries have made them liable for a hundred trillion dollars in debt and obligations. They need to be taught the lesson their parents ignored, that they have to work for what they get and that no one should recieve anything if they're not willing to work for it.

The children paying 100,000,000,000,000 dollars in taxes over their lifetimes for benefits accrued to others will be particularly sensitive to such lessons. The nation should start teaching it's children these truths if it wishes to survive.
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Mayor Snokum has stated he is not responsible for the education of anyone more or less.
Was Mayor Snokum mistaken then or is Mayor Snorkum mistaken now .

Those taxes are to be paid by furture generations Mayor Snorkum the less jobs the less wage the longer it will take .
You can not have it both ways you can not keep outsourceing jobs with good wages forceing unskilled to take lower paying jobs and pay off the debt owned by the nation.
 
Mayor Snorkum said:
And so you're saying that only Democrats can be leftist socialist America harming pimps selling out for cash and false idoelogy? You're now claiming that Republicans are the embodiment of all that is fine and healthy and beautiful in America, that no Republican ever have the moral failing to believe in retarded leftist causes?

Well, good for you.

But, the truth of the matter is that left and right aren't constrained by party allegiences. Well, okay, no one one the right, no one who cares about America, is a Democrat. However, there are plenty of leftist socialist Republicans. Bush was one, McCain another, there are traitor Senators all over the place, and in the House, too.

The real world isn't anywhere near as poifect as you wish.
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The main reason I left the Democratic party to become an Independent is not any of the reasons you named.

The Democratic party although it had it's day with men like F.D.R., Truman, Kennedy is no longer the strong party it once was.
It has become weak and if I might use the word "wimpy", they want everybody to be friends , hold hands and sing kum ba ya.
That's not the Democratic party I knew they get pushed around from organized religion, Republicans, Tea Party and Libatarians.
The Democratic party is faltering but to forgive is difficult , to forget well?
After all from 2000 till 2008 is being brought up more than once??
I am happy to be an Independent, YOU WANT MY VOTE WORK FOR IT.

As far the world being perfect, 2 days after I was born they droped the first atomic bomb on Japan.
In 1952 I lost a cousin in Korea, I was drafted in 1964.
My neice is on a ship in the gulf, my cousin is in Afganistan
I came into an imperfect world I'll probably go out the same way.
Just because the world is imperfect does not mean it can not be improved.:peace
 
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dadrone said:
What about the debt?
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I don't know that you can fairly compare the two in that regard. When FY2000 came to an end, the debt from the previous year barely increased at all ($18 billion); whereas when FY2008 came to an end, the debt from the previous year increased over $1 trillion. Bush inherited an economy that was slowing down from one of the strongest economies in our history; Obama inherited an economy that was in one of the worst recession in our history.

Anyone who merely looks at the raw numbers to show the numbers are worse under Obama, while at the same time, ignores the different economies the two inherited, is not being honest.
 
presluc said:
Mayor Snokum has stated he is not responsible for the education of anyone more or less.
Was Mayor Snokum mistaken then or is Mayor Snorkum mistaken now .

Those taxes are to be paid by furture generations Mayor Snorkum the less jobs the less wage the longer it will take .
You can not have it both ways you can not keep outsourceing jobs with good wages forceing unskilled to take lower paying jobs and pay off the debt owned by the nation.
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The only two ways to stop companies from sending jobs overseas are to nationalize the companies, ie, move further to the fascist state Obama is engineering now, or to stop taxing and regulating businesses to death, ie, expand freedom by shrinkin government.

Just "educating" peole won't do ****, while the problem of "outsourcing" lies with the ignorant asses that keep voting leftists into power, the possession of an 'education' in itself is insufficient to alter the course of history.

But it's nice to see you conceded on the other topic and are now working on losing this out of topic strand also.
 
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