Who Do You Think Has Done More Damage to the Country, Bush or Obama?

Yes we needed to lose some damn jobs, because we have been messing with the market far too much through political influence over the FED. Both parties have placed pressures upon FED board members to cut interest rates to keep the economy afloat. The recent recession is the result of 20 years of easy money. There is a business cycle, people will lose jobs and get new ones, pouring money into the bottom only gives people a short term cash flow that soon runs out. (give a man a fish he will eat for a day, teach a man to fish he will eat for life).

Now regarding the tax cuts they were directly correlated to an increase in our daily output of 1.8 billion dollars while the wars (especially Iraq) cost 2 billion. Without 9/11 Bush would have gone down as an acceptable president.


Finally Obama has caused a 225 billion dollar deficit in one month, greater than the entire 2007 deficit, nuff said

Bush, easily.

Bush hands down, its not even a contest at this point but ask me again a couple years after Obama is done.

I like Bush much more than Obama, but I still think that Bush did more economic damage to our country than Obama has. Obama's damage has been political. I hope that we can find someone to replace him in next year's election.

Kal'Stang said:

As far as reputation goes? Bush.

As far as taking away rights? They are about even.

As far as spending money like its going out of style? Obama.

So all in all I would say that they are about even.

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That's pretty frightening, considering Bush was in for 8 years, to Bammy's 2. Pretty frickin scary, alright.

presluc said:

I don't mind breaking a few eggs but these damn budget cuts could be a little less.

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If you are upset about budget cuts, then you are really going to be upset by what will inevitably have to happen to right things.

Kulterkampf said:

Yes we needed to lose some damn jobs, because we have been messing with the market far too much through political influence over the FED. Both parties have placed pressures upon FED board members to cut interest rates to keep the economy afloat. The recent recession is the result of 20 years of easy money. There is a business cycle, people will lose jobs and get new ones, pouring money into the bottom only gives people a short term cash flow that soon runs out. (give a man a fish he will eat for a day, teach a man to fish he will eat for life).

Now regarding the tax cuts they were directly correlated to an increase in our daily output of 1.8 billion dollars while the wars (especially Iraq) cost 2 billion. Without 9/11 Bush would have gone down as an acceptable president.


Finally Obama has caused a 225 billion dollar deficit in one month, greater than the entire 2007 deficit, nuff said

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Less jobs less paychecks, less paychecks less tax revenue.

Less tax revenue, what does that do for the FED help it or hurt it???

9/11 OR NO 9/11 Bush was a loser going in as president he would have been the same loser coming out.

LookingGlass said:

If you are upset about budget cuts, then you are really going to be upset by what will inevitably have to happen to right things.

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Have to happen to right things?

Why does it have to happen only one way.

More taxes might put a dent in budget cuts or what's coming.

More jobs produce more tax revenue that is a fact is it not?

Alright very understandable statement if you believe the economy runs purely in the short run. Just like Obama is not to Blame for the economic mess that is occurring during his administration the collapse of the economy in 2007 wasn't really caused by anything that occurred in 2007. (slight addendum, yes triggers caused the initial collapse of the subprime mortgage market but it's existence and why it caused the recession can be found due to the previous 4 administrations if not more.) the reason that the market collapsed was not due to a failure of the free market. Instead the roots lie with government interference with the market. Those you should blame for the loss of jobs is the FED and every politician that doesn't attempt to disband it. The bank rate that is controlled by the fed has been consistently been kept very low to keep the economy functioning and to avoid a recession. This low bank rate or easy money policy has kept the American machine on a constant meteoric trajectory for the last 15 years. Due to the low bank rate cash is readily accessible for banks and thus consumers, which all sounds like good things. Yet due t the artificially low rate projects that are economically and financially non viable were allowed to develop and grow thanks to the constant supply of easy capital. Thus subprime mortgages as well as other financial instruments and businesses that were truly inefficient eventually collapsed, which is normal due to the business cycle. Yet thanks to FED board members playing god with the economy and politicians trying to keep their seats due to short run thinking of most voters the system was pushed beyond it's ability to form. Thus stats about jobs don't hold any weight in this situation. Now regarding the tax cuts, I dont know any current numbers about their effect but there is consistent empirical evidence throughout history that whenever you cut taxes there are more real structural jobs unlike the temporary jobs produced by make work projects and handouts (FDR-new deal. Which is the real reason the great depression wasn't the great recession).

Real jobs are made from mutually beneficial economic exchanges, not from government redistribution.

Now if you want to discuss all of the backdoor deals found in the bush administration I would be right there with you but he wasn't the real cause for the un employment.

Just so we are on the same page please tell me what you think the FED is, because your statement does not make sense regarding the Federal reserve banks, they have no direct concern with tax revenue.

Alright lets go through the economics of your statements. (that really need further explanation to be really understood)

I can't speak for looking glass but I can give you my view of what needs to be done. To fix our current issues there will have to be a time of economic sturggle in which there will be high unemployment, businesses will fail and America will lose it's crown as the leading superpower of the world. Yet thanks to this economic struggle and due to deregulation and a much smaller federal government there will be opportunity everywhere which will result in another golden age for America. Yet the period required to remove the inefficiencies will be uncomfortable and will result in frustration. This frustration and cause and reasons why there is a recession will be misdirected and misinterpretted.

It can only happen one way through a real free market economy and smaller government. The result of this will be a higher standard of living for nearly all and greater overall freedom.

I'm okay with rising taxes to fight the deficit, only after the inefficiencies caused by our massive federal government are eliminated. See above reduction in govt size.

Yes more jobs due, but the question is what kind of jobs are created, structural or make work employment?

Kulterkampf said:

Alright lets go through the economics of your statements. (that really need further explanation to be really understood)

I can't speak for looking glass but I can give you my view of what needs to be done. To fix our current issues there will have to be a time of economic sturggle in which there will be high unemployment, businesses will fail and America will lose it's crown as the leading superpower of the world. Yet thanks to this economic struggle and due to deregulation and a much smaller federal government there will be opportunity everywhere which will result in another golden age for America. Yet the period required to remove the inefficiencies will be uncomfortable and will result in frustration. This frustration and cause and reasons why there is a recession will be misdirected and misinterpretted.

It can only happen one way through a real free market economy and smaller government. The result of this will be a higher standard of living for nearly all and greater overall freedom.

I'm okay with rising taxes to fight the deficit, only after the inefficiencies caused by our massive federal government are eliminated. See above reduction in govt size.

Yes more jobs due, but the question is what kind of jobs are created, structural or make work employment?

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Well you must lean to the right or a die hard rightwinger.

You guys tend to go this way then that way when it comes to the economics of America

I like to keep things simple.

Like money, the American goveernment runs on money.
Money comes from taxes.
If budget cuts are needed tax revenue is low.

I leave you with an old Private Detective motto, "FOLLOW THE MONEY"

Arcadius said:

I'm going to keep my opinion out of the first post. I think the title pretty much sizes things up. George W. Bush vs. Barack Hussein Obama

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I'm going to answer before I read anybody else's post.

President Obama. George Bush will be judged by historians to have had a very difficult presidency because of 9/11 and the Iraq War. When he stepped up to the plate and addressed the American people re 9/11, he was a powerhouse. I get chills just thinking about it. The nation was stunned. There he was (well, after he left the school; I'll give ya' that) talking straight, firm, telegraphing his intentions...and ready to act -- he didn't put a finger up to the wind. He laid down the law. We allllll needed to hear that right then. We weren't disappointed.

President Obama spent two full years ramming healthcare down the throats of Americans. (I'm actually for universal healthcare, by the way.) He ignored Republicans...he was on point to making that legislation his legacy. And...perhaps he has. But at what cost? Americans didn't understand it. Americans didn't believe in it. Americans didn't want it. Is that the job of a President? Or is it the President's job to "bring us along with him?" I say the latter. He dragged us kicking and screaming. History will not forgive him for that.

Fortunately, his fixation on universal healthcare took away his momentum....so we never did get Card Check -- which would have been the worst legislation I think I've seen in my lifetime. We should be thankful.

I don't like him. I don't trust him. I have no confidence in his ability to lead. Guess that pretty much sums it up.

President Bush had his weaknesses and made a few mistakes.

Obama is a flat out failure at everything he has done, unless you figure his own agenda of destruction and that is right on schedule, and the economy is in trouble so that Socialism can be pushed. Only people have figured him and his lies out.

Obama is the worst president of my lifetime, worse than jimmy carter and america knows it. Liberals as well as conservatives

I think it is obviously Bush. From 9-11 and Katrina to the economic collapse he left to Obama. No question. Obama had to do the spending he did in order to keep the economy from a complete breakdown. I can list all the top economists who said he needed to shore things up. The stock market has returned, The job situation is heading north. Now I don't think housing will come back for a while and since it was our main economic engine the past ten years that is going to continue to hurt us. But the entire mess including two wars that were unfunded were all left behind by GWB. That is a fact no matter what you think of Obama. Without the crash Obama would have never had to spend what he did. And BTW it was congress as well that passed the spending. So there you are. My take. Thank you thank you. I'm here all week. Oh and before someone says it...I liked Bush

Everything Bush did wrong, Obama has done exponentially. Everything Bush did right, Obama has not done at all.

Bush didn't cause 9/11. Come on now.

As for the job market returning, let's think about that one. Obama spent an extra trillion dollars a year that we didn't have in 2009 and 2010, and the job situation got even worse. Even the jobs he said he saved were proven wrong by later reports.

Then we extended the Bush tax cuts in December and suddenly jobs are coming back. After passing the Bush tax cuts the first time, unemployment dropped to 4.5%.

No correlation?

friday said:

Bush didn't cause 9/11. Come on now.

As for the job market returning, let's think about that one. Obama spent an extra trillion dollars a year that we didn't have in 2009 and 2010, and the job situation got even worse. Even the jobs he said he saved were proven wrong by later reports.

Then we extended the Bush tax cuts in December and suddenly jobs are coming back. After passing the Bush tax cuts the first time, unemployment dropped to 4.5%.

No correlation?

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yea and when the economy does come back, which it is supposed to, they are all going to praise Obama for doing such a great job. He is slowing the recovery down by not reducing spending while passing more government funded programs.

Obama, without question. His Obamacare monstrosity alone will do more damage that Bush ever could. Then there's the outrageous drilling moratorium for US companies, but Obama is going to gladly help Brazil drill in the Gulf, so we could buy their oil. There's the destruction of the US manned space program, something the nation won't recover from for decades. There's the Green Energy boondoggle. There's the Third War. There's the trillion dollar deficits of Obama's. There's the unpunished racism in Holder's Justice Department. There's the lawsuit against Arizona for passing sensible residency verification laws to guide police when stopping people with probable cause. There's Obama's inability to say the word's "Islamic" and "terrorism" in the same teleprompter screen.

There's no comparison. Only Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt were worse presidents than Obama. Carter doesn't place anymore.

Mikeyy said:

I think it is obviously Bush. From 9-11 and Katrina to the economic collapse he left to Obama. No question. Obama had to do the spending he did in order to keep the economy from a complete breakdown. I can list all the top economists who said he needed to shore things up. The stock market has returned, The job situation is heading north. Now I don't think housing will come back for a while and since it was our main economic engine the past ten years that is going to continue to hurt us. But the entire mess including two wars that were unfunded were all left behind by GWB. That is a fact no matter what you think of Obama. Without the crash Obama would have never had to spend what he did. And BTW it was congress as well that passed the spending. So there you are. My take. Thank you thank you. I'm here all week. Oh and before someone says it...I liked Bush

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No honest person says the stock market has returned.

Index it for inflation, buddy. Try to remember what is happening while the Federal Reserve is monetizing Obama's debt. Certainly, while Mayor Snorkum opposes putting the image of a living politician on American currency, there's no doubt that Obama should be on the nation's first billion dollar federal reserve notes printed for general circulation.

Remember the Weimar Republic, Remember Zimbabwe.

presluc said:

Well you must lean to the right or a die hard rightwinger.

You guys tend to go this way then that way when it comes to the economics of America

I like to keep things simple.

Like money, the American goveernment runs on money.
Money comes from taxes.
If budget cuts are needed tax revenue is low.

I leave you with an old Private Detective motto, "FOLLOW THE MONEY"

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No.

If budget cuts are needed, spending is too high. Given that the left is having hernias over the thought that something as silly as NPR is getting cut, then the Left needs to get counseling and treatment for the their spendning addiction.

Comparing eight years to two years is fair. I think President Obama has already won the competition, though. I don't know why we didn't go with Bush in eight years or Obama in the last five minutes.

I say Bush because
1. He is the cause of Obama. If a better president was elected, then the republicans wouldn't have been that unpopular.

2. He sent America into two wars

3. He was an embarrasment for Americans at the international stage and strengthening the stereotype that Americans are stupid.

4. He didn't care about the deficits either.

Mayor Snorkum said:

No.

If budget cuts are needed, spending is too high. Given that the left is having hernias over the thought that something as silly as NPR is getting cut, then the Left needs to get counseling and treatment for the their spendning addiction.

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Strange I thought budget cuts came from less tax revenue due to less jobs.

As far as I'm concerned the left as well as the right both need counseling and treatment for their spending addiction.

However 8 yrs with Bush?
How much was the deficit in 2000, how much was the deficit in 2008? do the math

Obama almost 4 yrs.
How much was the deficit in 2008 How much is the deficit now? do the math.
Granted Obama didn't do much better, but the name of the post ask a question.
Mathmatics is the answer,numbers don't lie.
You can make excuses or plead bad luck but numbers are numbers.eace