• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Should Wisconsin Democrats be paid while they hide out in Illinois?

Should Wiscnson Democrats be paid while they hide in Illinois?


  • Total voters
    47
If you can't read, I can't help you. He's doing EGZAKLY as promised. If you want more information about Governor Walker and what he promised than this link povides, look it up yourself.

This is the only thing I found concerning state workers at the link "...Walker proposed cutting state employee wages and benefits..." And the state employees agreed via their unions. Nothing in there about unions at all and now he wants to emasculate the unions. I guess I too don't know how to read. Can you teach us?
 
I did read it Maggie.

I saw NOTHING in which he promised to take the Draconian steps that he is now doing. But please, prove me wrong by reproducing his exact campaign promises of how he was going to take away the right of unions to engage in collective bargaining as they now have the power to do.

Please.

check this for proof

Wisconsin State Representative Mark Pocan: Scott Walker's Top Ten Lies

Why is it so vital for you to invent, to create, to manufacture a position that he did not take in the campaign?

Unbelievable. Can't you spell Scott Walker? Google his name and get his platform on education...here's part of it:

The Qualified Economic Offer (QEO), which helped hold down local school costs for more than 15 years, will be restored and tied to revenue caps to align each district’s expenses with their revenues. Mediation and arbitration changes will also be needed to ensure that local economic factors are considered along with other common sense factors when arbitrating teacher contracts. And we can save more than $68 million per year by allowing school districts to enroll in the state health care plan.

If you're going to say, "He never said blah-blah-blah," save your fingers.
 
Maggie - now you are a woman of intelligence and integrity. I respect you. really now - read this

The Qualified Economic Offer (QEO), which helped hold down local school costs for more than 15 years, will be restored and tied to revenue caps to align each district’s expenses with their revenues. Mediation and arbitration changes will also be needed to ensure that local economic factors are considered along with other common sense factors when arbitrating teacher contracts. And we can save more than $68 million per year by allowing school districts to enroll in the state health care plan.



That says NOTHING about destroying collective bargaining rights.

N
O
T
H
I
N
G

Please now... its getting sad to watch you try to come up with something that does not exist. Why is it so important for you to try to pretend that Walker told people he was going to do this when he never did tell he people of Wisconsin during the campaign that he was going to do this? WHY?
 
no, the soveriegn is the people as a body. and the wisconsin people as a body turned them out and put republicans in specifically to take the kind of steps that he is last election. and they are specifically and explicitely not at work.

I think you made 2 technical errors.
1) They were not turned out, the Dems are still senators.
2) The sovereign is the people of the district from which they were elected.
Again, they are doing what they were elected to do.
 
Maggie - now you are a woman of intelligence and integrity. I respect you. really now - read this

That says NOTHING about destroying collective bargaining rights.

N
O
T
H
I
N
G

Please now... its getting sad to watch you try to come up with something that does not exist. Why is it so important for you to try to pretend that Walker told people he was going to do this when he never did tell he people of Wisconsin during the campaign that he was going to do this? WHY?

Okay, now you're just trying to drive me crazy. What is it that you don't understand about this:

Mediation and arbitration changes will also be needed to ensure that local economic factors are considered along with other common sense factors when arbitrating teacher contracts.

Really, Haymarket, there is something wrong with you. Mediation Changes/Arbitration Changes = Bargaining. He's changing 'em. He's asked that teachers be put on the same level as all Federal employees in that they will no longer be able to collective bargain their salaries. He is leaving them one leg up on all Federal employees in that they will be able to bargain their benefits.

I thought you were at least capable of fair thought. In this matter, on this subject, I was wrong. You are not. As a former teacher collecting a public pension, as a former union stewart, as a current potential double dipper in your job with the state legislature, you are incapable of fair thought. You can't even read when something is put in front of your face.
 
Where is the proof that Walker promised to take the exact Draconian steps with unions that he is now attempting to employ should he get the approval of the Wisconsin legislature? Your post and link failed to provide that.
"the exact Draconian steps" ??? You must be delusional! You're hopeless and constantly falling back towards the pit of doom after each post encounter and saying nobody told me exactly where the pit was. Get real! The governor has the ultimate responsibility to act in the "people's best interest" as a matter of public trust. When he has to order demonRATic politicians to come back and do what they were elected to do and they thumb their noses at him, the electorate gets might pissed-off. This entirely selfish action by this public sector union, not subject to the same standards in law as private sector unions is nothing more than public relations bullying tactics against their employer, the taxpayers. Their employee, unbeknowncest to you apparently, has understood this and had his fill of it. They know that they will be making economic sacrifices, because of bad policy by politicians and see these teachers a sbeing too selfish to comprehend or worse, even care. What you are seeing now will be the start of, and I've said this before, a groundswell by the states to ban forevermore public sector unions. It will start with only one state and then catch on and build and the more that out-of-state union members travel to other states to lend support and encourage bad behavior the more the folks in that state wil throw up their arms in disgust with public sector unions. Too bad, because they should have representation, but they fail to understand their place and shall pay a dear price for that.
 
Sorry Maggie but this time you are really off the deep end.

here is what you badly want to prove

1- the people of Wisconsin support Walker because he told them what he was going to do and now he is doing it
2- everybody is getting what they voted for so its all fair and just

that is the point you and the other righties here want so badly to make.

But you fall very very short of even coming close to doing this.

Walker NEVER told the voters that he was going to end collective bargaining rights for public employees.

Mediation reform IS NOT ending collective bargaining.

Arbitration reform IS NOT ending collective bargaining.

This is this. This is not something else. This is this.

Keep trying if you got something new. If not, please throw in the towel and just give up trying to tell us that Walker told the voters when he clearly did not.

You really are better than that Maggie.
 
Sorry Maggie but this time you are really off the deep end.

here is what you badly want to prove

1- the people of Wisconsin support Walker because he told them what he was going to do and now he is doing it
2- everybody is getting what they voted for so its all fair and just

that is the point you and the other righties here want so badly to make.

But you fall very very short of even coming close to doing this.

Walker NEVER told the voters that he was going to end collective bargaining rights for public employees.

Mediation reform IS NOT ending collective bargaining.

Arbitration reform IS NOT ending collective bargaining.

This is this. This is not something else. This is this.

Keep trying if you got something new. If not, please throw in the towel and just give up trying to tell us that Walker told the voters when he clearly did not.

You really are better than that Maggie.

Yes, dear. I'm getting sick of you personalizing this, Haymarket. I'm through arguing on this point. Feel free to take your victory...because it isn't.
 
Walker NEVER told the voters that he was going to end collective bargaining rights for public employees.

he'd not ending them. he's modifying them.

Mediation reform IS NOT ending collective bargaining.

Arbitration reform IS NOT ending collective bargaining.

actually yes it is.
 
I believe they are now required to come to the Capital to pick up there pay. I think there needs to be a Law that allows a simple majority to remove them from office for failing to live up to their Oath of office which I believe they are violating.
 
I believe they are now required to come to the Capital to pick up there pay. I think there needs to be a Law that allows a simple majority to remove them from office for failing to live up to their Oath of office which I believe they are violating.

The job of any politician is to oppose and prevent legislation that their constituents oppose and support and enact legislation that their voters support. How exactly are they violating their oath of office?

GAB-154 Official Oath | Government Accountability Board
Official Oath



STATE OF WISCONSIN, _________)
_____________________________) ss
______________________ County )


I, ______________________________________________, having been elected or appointed to

the office of ___________________________________________________________________
(title)
swear (or affirm) that I will support the constitution of the United States and the constitution of
the State of Wisconsin, and will faithfully and impartially discharge the duties of said office to
the best of my ability.

So help me God.


_______________________________________
(Signature of elected or appointed official)
 
Last edited:
he'd not ending them. he's modifying them.



actually yes it is.

Yeah. And castration is not ending your sex life - its only modifying it. Even though you will not be able to cut the mustard, you can still lick the jar.

I honestly have seen not one iota of evidence in your posts that you even understand what collective bargaining is and I had my doubts that you knew how arbitration and mediation work in a labor dispute. And since you equate reform of both with ending collective bargaining its now crystal clear beyond any doubt that you don't.

Reading the posts of right wingers here who want to discuss the details of labor unions is like reading the accounts of a eunuch in a brothel.
 
I believe they are now required to come to the Capital to pick up there pay. I think there needs to be a Law that allows a simple majority to remove them from office for failing to live up to their Oath of office which I believe they are violating.

I was under the impression they signed up for direct deposit in a bank just like any other state employee can do.
 
Why is it that there is no category as follows

They should be paid, get a bonus and a medal for Heroism

Because no one in their right mind would vote for it.
 
The job of any politician is to oppose and prevent legislation that their constituents oppose and support and enact legislation that their voters support

by any means necessary?

How exactly are they violating their oath of office?

well let's see:

GAB-154 Official Oath | Government Accountability Board
Official Oath

STATE OF WISCONSIN, _________)
_____________________________) ss
______________________ County )


I, ______________________________________________, having been elected or appointed to

the office of ___________________________________________________________________
(title)
swear (or affirm) that I will support the constitution of the United States and the constitution of
the State of Wisconsin, and will faithfully and impartially discharge the duties of said office to
the best of my ability.

So help me God.


_______________________________________
(Signature of elected or appointed official)

seems like they're not exactly performing their duties of said office by refusing to show up to the office :).
 
no, the soveriegn is the people as a body. and the wisconsin people as a body turned them out and put republicans in specifically to take the kind of steps that he is last election. and they are specifically and explicitely not at work.
Sorry cp, but that is definitively incorrect. This nation, as each state, is a representative democracy and the form is a constitutional republic, which also holds true for the "several states". The people as a group are NEITHER the national NOR the state sovereign. The people's elected state representatives are the ones with the majority of ruling power (or so was the "original intent"), because they make The Rule of Law, not controlled by the national government as per constitutional edict and the elected Governors/President appoints officers of those governmental bodies to duty. In our constitutional republic the sovereign is shared power to protect the people. It is so, ONLY because of the Constitution. In the minutia of detail this constitutional republic is unique.
 
he'd not ending them. he's modifying them.



actually yes it is.
True. It's the imposing of 'alternatives' to the collective bargaining that defines the "private" sector and it will be the sole option for public employees OR they'll lose their unions. That's my prediction anyway. Change is in the air already and the momentum of anger is building.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Folks, knock off the personal attacks or there will be further consequences.
 
Again, as you yourself said:

"The Wisconsin legislature cannot filibuster; it's against procedural rules."

That makes all analogies to the Federal congress pointless.


Out of curiosity, if a Wisconsin Democrat majority was trying push through a bill to fully fund all organizations that perform abortions, what would you have wanted your elected representatives to do?

Vote against it and make an issue of it in the next legislative elections...
 
Because no one in their right mind would vote for it.

Now you have a medical degree in psychiatry?

If you look at any of the 528 threads here on Wisconsin, you will quickly see that there are lots of supporters of the Senators who have left to protect the rights of working people in their state. That is a heroic act and deserves to be praised.

from dochugo

The only 'reasonable' option. Playing the game by the rules.

That is exactly what they are doing. The Senators have employed the rules - to the letter - to defend the working people of Wisconsin.
 
Last edited:
The Senators have employed the rules - to the letter - to defend the working people of Wisconsin.

I disagree. They've taken their ball and their bat and gone home. They've said, "There's a delay of game penalty for 12 men on the field. Let's keep twelve men on the field." They've said, "The OJ trial can't happen without a judge. Judges! Stay home!" It's dishonest. It's a subversion of the democratic process. They are whiney little girls who are probably being promised extra campaign cash by the union to pull this stunt. They are cowards.
 
I disagree. They've taken their ball and their bat and gone home. They've said, "There's a delay of game penalty for 12 men on the field. Let's keep twelve men on the field." They've said, "The OJ trial can't happen without a judge. Judges! Stay home!" It's dishonest. It's a subversion of the democratic process. They are whiney little girls who are probably being promised extra campaign cash by the union to pull this stunt. They are cowards.

Thinking about this. I guess I now agree with those who say that sometimes the right thing is more important than democracy. At least for some things.
 
Thinking about this. I guess I now agree with those who say that sometimes the right thing is more important than democracy. At least for some things.

Really. Well, I guess it depends on what side of the issue one stands. Not very different from the freedom fighter/terrorist thingie.

Dangerous.
 
Last edited:
Really. Well, I guess it depends on what side of the issue one stands. Not very different from the freedom fighter/terrorist thingie.

Maybe so. I see this as a constitutional issue myself and a part of the first amendment rights.
 
Back
Top Bottom