View Poll Results: Should Wiscnson Democrats be paid while they hide in Illinois?

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  • Yes

    27 21.43%
  • No

    99 78.57%
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Thread: Should Wisconsin Democrats be paid while they hide out in Illinois?

  1. #81
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    Re: Should Wisconsin Democrats be paid while they hide out in Illinois?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    the one is the same as the other; they want to retain the source of the problem in favor of cosmetic improvements.
    Multiple sources have said that they would agree to cuts and paying more for benefits. To say they want to bleed the budget dry is a blatantly dishonest meant to paint them as greedy at the public's expense.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  2. #82
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    Re: Should Wisconsin Democrats be paid while they hide out in Illinois?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Back again with the issue of the pay. So don't pay 'em. This isn't about money, at least not for the reps, but it's about a principle of protecting the livelihoods of people who work for the State, to the benefit of the entire community.
    the current bill is designed to keep the state from what would otherwise be forced layoffs and furloughs. how is working to put your constituents out of work "protecting their livelihoods"?

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    Re: Should Wisconsin Democrats be paid while they hide out in Illinois?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Multiple sources have said that they would agree to cuts and paying more for benefits
    certainly of course, of course, of course; and for the mere provision of your real name, birthdate, social security number, and some credit card information, i will mail you 15$. TaDa! i just gave you 15$!!!

    maintaining public sector unions leaves those unions with the ability to veto the people of the United States of America, an indenfensible state. maintaining collective bargaining for public sector unions simply continues to put them in a position where they can funnel public money via coerced contributions to friendly politicians into controling the political process. if Walker leaves that in place, he may have fixed this years' budget; but future governors (perhaps him) will face others created by the same ground conditions that he left unaltered.

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    Re: Should Wisconsin Democrats be paid while they hide out in Illinois?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Until they make a law that makes it to where votes can go on if politicians skip town, this will always be another process to defend against a particular piece of legislation. I would think republicans in Wisconsin would be severely pissed at their elected officials not using the same tactics when they were in the minority.
    i would expect them to fillibuster if it was bad enough and certainly to vote against it; but no, i wouldn't countenance them going AWOL.

    Because that is what this is. they have no more right to refuse to show up to perform the work that they campaigned and asked the people to entrust to them than i do to tell my CO that i don't agree with his command decisions, and will therefore not be showing up to work.

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    Re: Should Wisconsin Democrats be paid while they hide out in Illinois?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    certainly of course, of course, of course; and for the mere provision of your real name, birthdate, social security number, and some credit card information, i will mail you 15$. TaDa! i just gave you 15$!!!

    maintaining public sector unions leaves those unions with the ability to veto the people of the United States of America, an indenfensible state. maintaining collective bargaining for public sector unions simply continues to put them in a position where they can funnel public money via coerced contributions to friendly politicians into controling the political process. if Walker leaves that in place, he may have fixed this years' budget; but future governors (perhaps him) will face others created by the same ground conditions that he left unaltered.
    Follow The Money

    ...Unions, most of whose members are public employees, gave Democrats some $400 million in the 2008 election cycle. The American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees, the biggest public-employee union, gave Democrats $90 million in the 2010 cycle.

    “Follow the money,” Washington reporters like to say. The money in this case comes from taxpayers, present and future, who are the source of every penny of dues paid to public-employee unions — who in turn spend much of that money on politics, almost all of it for Democrats. In effect, public-employee unions are a mechanism by which every taxpayer is forced to fund the Democratic party...

    And, according to the Washington Post, [Obama] had time enough to get the Democratic National Committee to organize protests against the proposed Wisconsin law — protests that showed contempt for the law, with teachers abandoning classrooms, doctors writing phony medical excuses, Democratic legislators fleeing the state and holing up in a motel. The lawmakers played hooky without losing any salary, which is protected by the state constitution.

    It’s true that Walker’s proposals would strike hard at the power of the public-employee unions. They would no longer have the right to bargain for fringe benefits, which are threatening to bankrupt the state government, and they would no longer be able to count on government withholding dues money and passing it along to them.

    But what are the contributions that public-employee unions make to our states and our citizens? Their incentives are to increase the cost of government and reduce toward zero the accountability of public employees — both contrary to the interests of taxpaying citizens...


    What citizens of states with strong public-employee unions do get are higher taxes and enormous pension burdens that threaten to squeeze out funds for ongoing services, as even Democratic governors like Andrew Cuomo of New York and Jerry Brown of California have figured out.

    That’s why one of the great 20th-century presidents was against unions for public employees who have civil-service protections. No, not Ronald Reagan. It was Franklin Roosevelt who said, “Action looking toward the paralysis of government by those who have sworn to support it is unthinkable and intolerable.”...

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    Re: Should Wisconsin Democrats be paid while they hide out in Illinois?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    certainly of course, of course, of course; and for the mere provision of your real name, birthdate, social security number, and some credit card information, i will mail you 15$. TaDa! i just gave you 15$!!!
    Are you saying that they are lying about agreeing to pay cuts and paying more for benefits?
    maintaining public sector unions leaves those unions with the ability to veto the people of the United States of America, an indenfensible state. maintaining collective bargaining for public sector unions simply continues to put them in a position where they can funnel public money via coerced contributions to friendly politicians into controling the political process. if Walker leaves that in place, he may have fixed this years' budget; but future governors (perhaps him) will face others created by the same ground conditions that he left unaltered.
    You don't think future governors and unions would keep spending cuts?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Should Wisconsin Democrats be paid while they hide out in Illinois?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    i would expect them to fillibuster if it was bad enough and certainly to vote against it; but no, i wouldn't countenance them going AWOL.
    So if a democrat majority said we want tax payer funded abortions, free college education for illegals, ban certian types of firearms, impose 30 day waiting periods for firearms, make it mandatory to lock up your firearms in a safe, and other similar laws you would oppose republicans skipping town to prevents these things from happening. Besides that filibustering is not a option for the.

    Because that is what this is. they have no more right to refuse to show up to perform the work that they campaigned and asked the people to entrust to them than i do to tell my CO that i don't agree with his command decisions, and will therefore not be showing up to work.
    Last time I checked it's illegal for anyone in the military to refuse a lawful order from their chain of command and its illegal for those in the military to go AWOL. Is it illegal for politicians to flee the state in order to prevent legislation that they do not like?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Should Wisconsin Democrats be paid while they hide out in Illinois?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Well, it strikes me that you (and us over here in Europe) are suffering a crisis that was 100% the creation of the private, financial sector. They came running to dip into the public purse to have their debts underwritten by the tax payer, which stupidly the governments decided to do. You are now expecting the public sector workers to soak up the impact of those debts, taken on by the western governments on behalf of, but without consulting, the tax-payers. At the same time, the corporate recipients of those trillions of tax dollars, who haven't yet repaid the bail-outs, are still giving themselves multi-million dollar bonuses...and you're getting angry at the firemen, teachers and health workers. I think you need to rethink your values, Maggie.
    It strikes me that you are blaming financial institutions for our legislators spending like drunken sailors. Everyone needs to shoulder some of the burden. How many public sector jobs have been lost? What's their unemployment rate? Billions of our bailout money went to preserve public sector jobs...second only in funding to bailing out our financial markets. In a world where the rest of us are taking salary freezes, asked to work harder and longer hours to compensate for staffs being laid off, Wisconsin teachers got a 4.5% increase last year. Private employment has dropped by 7%. In the meanwhile, public sector employment has increased by 2%. Cities with job growth favor public sector hiring - Business - Forbes.com - msnbc.com

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Democrat lawmakers the protesters have said numerous times that they concede to cuts in benefits as well as paying more into benifits. Even Fox news has reported this. This is about them wanting to keep their ability to collectively bargain. So its its dishonest to say they want to keep bleeding the public dry.
    This is about them being forced into these concessions because Gov. Walker has stood his ground. This is about Wisconsin teachers up in arms that Viagra won't be covered by their prescription drug coverage. This is about them wanting to keep their ability to negotiate their salaries and benefits with the very jakes (Democrats) they're donating hundreds of millions of dollars to in order to keep them in office. What is wrong with having taxpayers vote if salaries are increased more than the rate of inflation?
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Should Wisconsin Democrats be paid while they hide out in Illinois?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    i would expect them to fillibuster if it was bad enough and certainly to vote against it; but no, i wouldn't countenance them going AWOL.

    Because that is what this is. they have no more right to refuse to show up to perform the work that they campaigned and asked the people to entrust to them than i do to tell my CO that i don't agree with his command decisions, and will therefore not be showing up to work.
    I think you have missidentified their CO. I think their CO are the Dems that elected them. They are doing what they were elected to do, i.e. they are at work.

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