View Poll Results: Are Wisconsin public employees overcompensated?

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  • Yes

    78 68.42%
  • No

    23 20.18%
  • Other

    7 6.14%
  • I don't care (rootabega)

    6 5.26%
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Thread: Are Wisconsin public employees overcompensated?

  1. #21
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    Re: Are Wisconsin public employees overcompensated?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Yes, I agree that public school teachers are paid more than private school counterparts. At least this is true in my state. However, there is also a large difference in necessary qualifications which accounts for much of it. Private schools generally accept less qualified teachers. Again, I am using my state as an example. Given that they are not directly comparable, I can't really say that they are overpaid because of that.
    What is directly comparable is results, and private schools get better results. So explain that discrepancy. The schools that do better pay their teachers less because the worse schools are subsidized.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  2. #22
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    Re: Are Wisconsin public employees overcompensated?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    What is directly comparable is results, and private schools get better results. So explain that discrepancy. The schools that do better pay their teachers less because the worse schools are subsidized.
    From the studies I have seen, private schools tend to get equal or worse results to public schools and a good bit of the higher results are due to parental involvement (given that parents who are interested in their kid's education are the most likely to be actively involved with it). There is some hype about charter schools and what not, but it is only hype.

  3. #23
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    Re: Are Wisconsin public employees overcompensated?

    In all tests private schools perform better. When a cohort study is done the difference isn't as great, but still private schools perform better (but who knows the quality of those cohort studies) at least in the higher grades.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  4. #24
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    Re: Are Wisconsin public employees overcompensated?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    In all tests private schools perform better. When a cohort study is done the difference isn't as great, but still private schools perform better (but who knows the quality of those cohort studies) at least in the higher grades.
    http://credo.stanford.edu/reports/MU...OICE_CREDO.pdf

    The group portrait shows wide variation in performance. The study reveals that a decent fraction
    of charter schools, 17 percent, provide superior education opportunities for their students.
    Nearly half of the charter schools nationwide have results that are no different from the local
    public school options and over a third, 37 percent, deliver learning results that are significantly
    worse than their student would have realized had they remained in traditional public schools.
    These findings underlie the parallel findings of significant state‐by‐state differences in charter
    school performance and in the national aggregate performance of charter schools. The policy
    challenge is how to deal constructively with varying levels of performance today and into the
    future.
    According to this study, on average they are worse.

    However, I agree that the more expensive private schools yield better results, but that won't have much of an affect on the general population. Teachers in the more expensive schools are usually paid better too.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 02-21-11 at 01:51 PM.

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    Re: Are Wisconsin public employees overcompensated?

    Transfer to private sector jobs then
    "It is a sad day in society when people adjust the facts to fit their beliefs, rather than adjust their beliefs to fit the facts."
    Libertarian/Conservative/Christian Beliefs

  6. #26
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    Re: Are Wisconsin public employees overcompensated?

    I voted no reflexively but should have voted yes. Oh well.

    Regarding the source of the OP... I'm sorry but I just cannot take that information as being either unbiased or even legitimate. The EPI is run by these founders according to the EPI's "About". After doing a little research of these founders, I find they all have one major thing in common - they all once were or still are Socialists. They were all or are still part of the Democratic Socialists of America. They're heavily pro-union, pro-social justice, progressive or outright Socialists who want a socialist economy or society in the United States. So why would I be compelled to take their views on the Wisconsin Unions seriously when just looking at who they are, what they've said and done would I think their views are anything but PRO union?

    Founders EPI:

    Jeff Faux
    Author of "The Global Class War" highly recommended by the DemocraticUnderground.com
    "The Global Class War" by Jeff Faux - Democratic Underground

    In 2010, Jeff Faux was listed as serving on the advisory board of the Democratic Socialists of America dominated National Jobs For All Coalition.[9]

    On September 28th and 29th 2010 Greater Detroit Democratic Socialists of America held a forum “Jobs and the Economic Crisis” featuring Jeff Faux, past president of the Economic Policy Institute[10]

    Jeff Faux - KeyWiki


    Barry Bluestone
    Professor of political economy at the University of Massachusetts, author of Negotiating the Future: A Labor Perspective on American Business.
    A future for public unions? (Boston Globe, July 18, 2009)

    n 1968, Barry Bluestone was a founding member of the Union for Radical Political Economics, an alternative professional organization for left political economists and an intellectual home for academics, policy-makers, and activists.[5]

    In 2001, Boston Democratic Socialists of America held monthly talks on different aspects of the global economy bring in 40 to 60 people. Presentations included economist Barry Bluestone on “Wall Street vs. Main Street;” a discussion of genetic engineering and corporate agriculture; and a meeting on “Global Warming: the Heat Is On.”
    Barry Bluestone - KeyWiki



    Robert Kuttner - The American Prospect, Newsweek
    Re: The American Prospect "About": At the dawn of a new progressive era and a time of economic transformation for the United States and the world, The American Prospect will strengthen the capacity of activists, engaged citizens, and public officials to pursue new policies and new possibilities for social justice. ....The Prospect was founded in 1990 by Robert Kuttner, Robert Reich, and Paul Starr as an authoritative magazine of liberal ideas.
    About the Economic Policy Institute

    Ray Marshall
    A very pro union former Labor Secretary under Jimmy Carter.
    Democratic Socialists of America member and writer of Talking Union.
    https://talkingunion.wordpress.com/tag/ray-marshall/
    Ray Marshall Issues Report on SEIU Trusteeship of UHW « Talking Union

    Back to Shared Prosperity
    Note the book has Jeff Faux's article in it as well, page 211

    Immigration for Shared Prosperity


    Robert Reich
    In 2009 Robert Reich was listed as the Co-Founder and a member of the Board of Directors of The American Prospect.[6]

    In 2009 Robert Reich was listed as a member of the Advisory Board[4] of Wellstone Action, a Minnesota based organization based on the political legacy[5] of that state’s late ‘progressive” Senator Paul Wellstone.

    • Wellstone Action and Wellstone Action Fund combine to form a national center for training and leadership development for the progressive movement. Founded in January 2003, Wellstone Action's mission is to honor the legacy of Paul Wellstone and Sheila Wellstone by continuing their work through training, educating, mobilizing and organizing a vast network of progressive individuals and organizations.


    In 1996 Robert Reich, Brandeis University, Former Secretary of Labor was one of the original 130 founders of Campaign for America's Future.[2]

    Campaign for America's Future was founded in July 1996 as "the strategy center for the progressive movement."[1]


    Lester Thurow
    In 1987, author and economist Lester Thurow, was a member of Democratic Socialists of America. [1]

    Thurow is a longtime advocate of a political and economic system of the Japanese and European type, in which governmental involvement in the direction of the economy is far more extensive than is presently the case in the United States – a model that has come to be known as "Third Way" philosophy.
    Lester Thurow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    Such a litany is akin to a post including John Bolton, William Kristol, George W Bush, and Dick Cheney started an institute espousing the need for more international involvement of the U.S. military to push Democracy.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  7. #27
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    Re: Are Wisconsin public employees overcompensated?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    I mean that comparatively, public employees have had it pretty good. That they still have their jobs is a wonderful thing compared to the high unemployment rate for everyone else.

    And I don't know if this applies for Wisconsin, but teachers are generally paid much, much more than private school counterparts (at least per pupil spending, which I assume would be kind of proportional to teacher pay).
    They Spend WHAT? The Real Cost of Public Schools | Adam B. Schaeffer | Cato Institute: Policy Analysis
    Per pupil spending does not necessarily translate into higher teacher's pay. There are overheads and administrative costs that need to be taken account of.

    This study shows pay by education and sector (figure 5), Federal employees are paid more than other sectors in all education group except for post-graduates, but private employees are better paid than state employees from "some college" onward. So, if Wisconsin is close to the average, its employee are not overpaid compared to the private sector.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

  8. #28
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    Re: Are Wisconsin public employees overcompensated?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I don't know.So I picked other.
    I chose other too. I figured we were mostly talking about teachers. There are some really good teachers who are probably undercompensated. Some are probably getting the pay they deserve and the rest overcompensated. Things need to change for the sake of the kids and the state's budgets.
    Lousy teachers should get fired, but that's hard to do with the way things are.
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
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  9. #29
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    Re: Are Wisconsin public employees overcompensated?

    I voted other.

    Some are overpaid, some are probably underpaid. One main area where I think this delta is the highest is with education. That's why we need a privatized schooling system. The superstars will gravitate towards the best paying schools and those schools can charge what they need to charge to stay in business. Added bonus - parents will have more options available as far as what type of education they purchase. If they want Bible in school, they can choose that. If they don't want sex ed, that's up to the consumer also.
    Last edited by dadrone; 02-21-11 at 08:54 PM.

  10. #30
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    Re: Are Wisconsin public employees overcompensated?

    I don't think they are grossly overcompensated. I think they have a sweet deal with regards to healthcare contributions and pension, and the govenors demands aren't unreasonable at all.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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