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Against/not against.

Are you against or not against the following?

  • I am against both TSA Body Scanners and Abortion.

    Votes: 13 28.9%

  • I am againt TSA Body Scanners but am not against Abortion.

    Votes: 13 28.9%

  • I am not against both TSA Body Scanners and Abortion.

    Votes: 15 33.3%

  • I am not against TSA Body Scanners but am against Abortion.

    Votes: 4 8.9%
  • Total voters
    45
Kal'Stang said:
And all that you are doing is avoiding a very pointed question because you know that it would invalidate your position.
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There is nothing in the constitution that gives anyone a right to have an abortion.Therefore it can be banned.
 
SheWolf said:
Using deadly force against violent criminals is different... If you want to kill a woman before she has an abortion, the baby still dies. If she dies during an abortion, the baby still dies. You're advocating the kill 'em all, let god sort them out approach, which isn't how our current legal system works. We don't blow up a bank being robbed, to stop the robbery and punish the wrongdoer.
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Outlawing abortion doesn't do this. You don't have to get an abortion. If you go somewhere to get an illegal procedure then that is your own fault if you die or get severely injured. The government should not make it legal for you to kill your child just so you can safely kill your child.

What you are saying is that you want to actually see these females die as punishment.... and NOT die after a trial, which is also different from executing a violent criminal after the fact.
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I am saying is that I have no sympathy for someone trying to kill their unborn child. That person is lower than a cockroach as far as I am concerned. This is no different than a burglar who gets killed while trying to rob a home, an attempted rapist who gets killed while trying to rape someone, a bank robber who gets killed while trying to rob a bank or any other criminal dying while in the commission of a crime.Why would someone dying while trying to get an abortion be any different than those cases?


You're not advocating ending abortion or life, you're just advocating punishment. You're also advocating intrusive government with the mandatory pregnancy tests, monitoring, vaginal ultra sounds, and investigations of miscarriages...
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I never said anything about mandatory pregnancy tests, monitoring, and vaginal ultra sounds. Where in any of my posts did I advocate such a thing? You don't need to do those things to catch people trying to have an abortion or people trying to perform abortions. It would be no different than any other sting operation.


So really, I am not arguing let's make is safer for people to abort.
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I am arguing that isn't practical, logical, feasible, or cost effective to pursue your ideal prolife society.
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It is practical, logical, feasible, or cost effective for those in the womb whose lives would be saved by making abortion illegal.


The state has no interest in feeding, clothing, sheltering, educating, or raising children.
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That is wrong. These people can grow up to be successful members of the community and pay taxes.

.. and I as a taxpayer, am not interested in doing it either. Call me selfish, IDK.
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You are an abortionist of course you are selfish.

I don't think raising a bunch of kids up in state orphanages, and tossing them out in the real word once they hit 18, is going to benefit society in the long run. In fact, it's proven to not benefit society at all...
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Just like an abortionist and planned parenthood founder to have no regard for innocent life.

There is nothing in the constitution that says it's a violent crime either... but the constitution does say we have a right to due process, and that it's unconstitutional for the government to punish us by death without a trial.
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Outlawing abortion would not be punishing you without a trial. It's no different than any other criminal dying while in the commission of a crime.

So if something isn't a constitutional right the government can ban it?

Hopefully they fed won't ban internet access, reproducing, tanning, or motor vehicles soon...

Where does it say in the constitution that marijuana and other drugs are banned?
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Where in the constitution does it say those things can't be banned? If its not in the constitution then it is not unconstitutional to ban it.
 
jamesrage said:
Outlawing abortion doesn't do this. You don't have to get an abortion. If you go somewhere to get an illegal procedure then that is your own fault if you die or get severely injured. The government should not make it legal for you to kill your child just so you can safely kill your child.

I am saying is that I have no sympathy for someone trying to kill their unborn child. That person is lower than a cockroach as far as I am concerned. This is no different than a burglar who gets killed while trying to rob a home, an attempted rapist who gets killed while trying to rape someone, a bank robber who gets killed while trying to rob a bank or any other criminal dying while in the commission of a crime.Why would someone dying while trying to get an abortion be any different than those cases?
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When I read the abortion forums it's full of a lot of hardcore lifers talking about how abortion supporters hate the unborn... and spend their time dehumanizing the unborn, and then I find lifers like you. You're judging every single female who has or might have an abortion, and saying she is lower than a cockroach. You obviously have hatred towards these females... and think they should die. That really disturbs me.

I have actually never met a supporter of abortion rights who actually wishes death on any unborn baby, but you however, wish death on the females who abort. You think it's moral that they die... disturbing.

Settle down for a minute and explain to me why all those females should die, and think about who they actually are....

Should minors die? Should rape victims die? Should women trying to get out of abusive relationships die? Should a girl die if the abortion isn't her choice and it's her parents?



I never said anything about mandatory pregnancy tests, monitoring, and vaginal ultra sounds. Where in any of my posts did I advocate such a thing? You don't need to do those things to catch people trying to have an abortion or people trying to perform abortions. It would be no different than any other sting operation.
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You advocated to check and make sure pregnant women remain pregnant and don't abort


That is wrong. These people can grow up to be successful members of the community and pay taxes.
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I didn't say they'd grow up to be anything... I said the state has no role in raising children, nor does the state have a great track record in terms of raising children.... just look at Asia and Indian. They could grow up to be successful people, and they could grow up to be unsuccessful, or grow up and be to later placed on deathrow... Who knows, that's not the point.

Why should the state play the role of a parent... that is literally the definition of a nanny state

You are an abortionist of course you are selfish.
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I am selfish, and you're delusion if you don't think the prolife position is also selfish...


Just like an abortionist and planned parenthood founder to have no regard for innocent life.
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Ironically, your posts don't reflect much regard for life... and you're actually ok with seeing more death than I am

Outlawing abortion would not be punishing you without a trial. It's no different than any other criminal dying while in the commission of a crime.
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Should every single instance of abortion be a crime?
 
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SheWolf said:
When I read the abortion forums it's full of a lot of hardcore lifers talking about how abortion supporters hate the unborn... and spend their time dehumanizing the unborn, and then I find lifers like you. You're judging every single female who has or might have an abortion, and saying she is lower than a cockroach. You obviously have hatred towards these females... and think they should die. That really disturbs me.
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Anyone trying to kill their child as a means of birth control should be be shown disgust.

I have actually never met a supporter of abortion rights who actually wishes death on any unborn baby,
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Seeing how you want it to be legal for a mother to kill her unborn child as a means of birth control its just as good as wishing for the death of an unborn baby. It would be like saying I don't think rape should be illegally but I am not advocating that anyone should rape anyone.

but you however, wish death on the females who abort. You think it's moral that they die... disturbing.
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You think its moral that it be legal for a mother to kill her unborn child. That is seriously ****ed up. Its like saying it should be legal to rape, molest kids or any other horrible despicable thing.

Settle down for a minute and explain to me why all those females should die, and think about who they actually are....
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Its no different than a criminal dying while in the commission of a crime.

Should minors die? Should rape victims die? Should women trying to get out of abusive relationships die? Should a girl die if the abortion isn't her choice and it's her parents?
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If they try to kill their own child as a means of birth control then I could care less if they die while getting a back alley abortion.

You advocated to check and make sure pregnant women remain pregnant and don't abort
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What post did I say that?


I didn't say they'd grow up to be anything... I said the state has no role in raising children, nor does the state have a great track record in terms of raising children.... just look at Asia and Indian. They could grow up to be successful people, and they could grow up to be unsuccessful, or grow up and be to later placed on deathrow... Who knows, that's not the point.

Why should the state play the role of a parent... that is literally the definition of a nanny state
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I would rather the state pay for children to raised than for children to be killed. IN regard to raising children the state fills that role in the event parents,private organizations or charities can not do that.

I am selfish, and you're delusion if you don't think the prolife position is also selfish...
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Pro-abortion side belief- women should be legally allowed to kill their own unborn child as a means of birth control
Anti-abortion side belief- women should not be legally allowed to kill their own unborn child as a means of birth control.

The anti-abortion side looks unselfish.



Ironically, your posts don't reflect much regard for life... and you're actually ok with seeing more death than I am
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I am okay with seeing the deaths of people trying to kill their own children or attempting to kill their own children. Its no different than a burglar getting killed while trying rob a home, a rapist getting killed while raping or trying to rape someone, a bank robber getting killed while trying to rob a bank, a car jacker getting killed while trying to steal a car or any other scumbag getting killed while doing something despicable.

Should every single instance of abortion be a crime?
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The only time it should be allowed( performed in a actual hospital) is if multiple doctors have confirm that vaginal birth or c-section past a 40% viability rate of the unborn child will result in the loss of the mother's life.
 
jamesrage said:
You are grasping at straws with unrelated stuff in your failed attempt to compare banning abortion to being against virtual strip searches.
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He answered your question quite well. The reason why the federal government can ban illegal drugs is because of the commerce clause. The commerce clause is elastic but no serious legal scholar is going to tell you it can stretch far enough to cover an abortion ban.

Moreover, you don't need cause for TSA searches because they are consented to.
 
Travelsonic said:
Again, as in every thread, [citation needed]

You have been making that claim a lot, and have only backed it up with "it isn't because it isn't" - literally - and not substance... please for the love of god, PROVE IT. Given your certainty so far as your opinion goes, it shouldn't be difficult.
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Actually I have many times, not my fault you choose to ignore the reality and facts LMAO

If you are so confidnet by all means tell me the amendment that it violates and ill gladly show you why you are wrong LOL

You're deflecting, although its humorous, it will not work

also since you only partially quoted me we are talking about TSA Policies for anybody else reading.
 
jamesrage said:
Pro-abortion side belief- women should be legally allowed to kill their own unborn child as a means of birth control
Anti-abortion side belief- women should not be legally allowed to kill their own unborn child as a means of birth control.
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There's a reason why there is no side called "pro-abortion," it's called "pro-choice."

Pro-choice side belief- government should not be allowed to invade the privacy of a woman's medical decisions.
Anti-choice side belief- because of our extreme dedication to religious superstition, government should force women to give up their right to medical privacy.
 
Guy Incognito said:
Anti-choice side belief- because of our extreme dedication to religious superstition, government should force women to give up their right to medical privacy.
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What is superstitious about believing that unborn children deserve the same legal protection as born children?

You are making the same mistake as the pro-lifers who call everyone who opposes them "pro-abortion".
 
I favour this over some random lady going through my bags, but the real solution will be when the airlines/government adopt procedures stop screwing over all the innocent people going through airports and start profiling the Arab/Middle Eastern males that are doing all the ****ing killing in the first place. Dumb **** politicians and their idiotic PC crap.
 
Guy Incognito said:
Pro-choice side belief- government should not be allowed to invade the privacy of a woman's medical decisions
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.

The government isn't allowed to invade their medical decisions...

Anti-choice side belief- because of our extreme dedication to religious superstition, government should force women to give up their right to medical privacy.
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Of course you are just ignoring one little aspect of reality. That aspect of reality also happens to be the crux of the whole debate too, but if you feel like the whole issue is about victimizing the poor wittle women, then by all means, ignore the killing that is taking place. Good for you buddy!
 
Guy Incognito said:
There's a reason why there is no side called "pro-abortion," it's called "pro-choice."
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Look up a dictionary. Those who support legalized abortion are called pro-abortion. The only reason you pro-abortion people dislike the term pro-abortion because deep down inside even you people find abortion to be disgusting and do not wish to actually be associated with the term abortion.

Pro-choice side belief- government should not be allowed to invade the privacy of a woman's medical decisions.
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That doesn't have anything to do with the pro-choice/pro-abortion/abortionist label. Nor does the government need to invade privacy to enforce anti-abortion laws.

Pro-abortion | Define Pro-abortion at Dictionary.com
favoring the legalization of abortion


Pro-choice | Define Pro-choice at Dictionary.com
supporting or advocating legalized abortion.

Anti-choice side belief- because of our extreme dedication to religious superstition, government should force women to give up their right to medical privacy.
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That has nothing to do with anti-choice/pro-life/anti-abortion label.

Anti-choice | Define Anti-choice at Dictionary.com
opposed to the concept that a pregnant woman has the right to choose abortion.

Antiabortion | Define Antiabortion at Dictionary.com
opposition to abortion, especially legalized abortion.

Pro-life | Define Pro-life at Dictionary.com
opposed to legalized abortion; right-to-life.
 
jamesrage said:
That doesn't have anything to do with the pro-choice/pro-abortion/abortionist label. Nor does the government need to invade privacy to enforce anti-abortion laws.
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Ready to answer that question I posed to you yet?
 
I have to say this poll is pretty revealing given that the majority of people who are for legal abortion are also for such egregious violations of our rights. I cannot say I am surprised.

Kal'Stang said:
This post brings to light what the premise is of this thread. And I will admit, as CC said, it is a bit of a stretch.

In Roe vs Wade anti-abortion laws were considered to be unconstitutional for privacy reasons. IE it violated the 4th amendment. Which is actually understandable when you consider that a persons medical records, be they physical or mental are considered to be damn near sancrosanct even to the point of doctors being barred from telling police about illegals that come into thier hospitals. The only way for police to access medical records is via a warrant. As far as I know not even the Patriot Act violated that part of our laws.

Now I'm sure that people will say that this right shouldn't apply because we're talking about an innocent life here. But honestly why shouldn't it? The very fundamental principle of the US is individual freedoms. That everyone, regardless of belief system, has an inalienable right, and that the majority should not be able to take that right away, unless there are lives at steak. Which of course for those that are anti-abortion is the very fundemental reason to be anti-abortion.

But then here comes the TSA and body scanners. They wish to put these body scanners into place in order to attempt to save innocent life. When all is said and done the TSA's goal is very similiar to that of an anti-abortionist. Only real difference is that of age. Yet here the innocent life on a plane is apparently less than that of a baby in the womb (ironically there are unborn babies in wombs aplenty on a plane also). Because here people holler about 4th amendment violations. Now people will no doubt try to draw comparisons between the amount of innocent life taken vs innocent life taken between the two. Problem here is that in order to be consistant every life should be valued just as equally as the next, irregardless of circumstances or amounts.

So when all is boiled down and consistant, you have two very different situations. Both of them are about a right to privacy. Yet as Jamesrage has evidenced here, there are contradictions between the two.

Note to Jamesrage: Sorry james, but you did fall neatly into the trap I placed. ;)
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There are some key problems with your rationale. For one the Supreme Court knew damn well that with abortion the right to life negates any talk about privacy so it is not right to privacy that the debate hinges on, rather the right to life of the unborn. Back then the court employed some rather fuzzy logic to write off the unborn as non-persons.

Another big problem with your rationale is that legalizing abortion can only mean legalizing the taking of life while banning body scanners is not going to make it legal to hijack an airliner and crash it into a building. One involves the direct protection of life and another does not.

Banning body scanners is also not devaluing anyone's right to life. If Abdul and his buddies Muhammad and Tariq try to jack an airliner so they can crash it into the Superdome the passengers have every right to set upon them like a pack of angry wolves in order to defend their lives.

Kal'Stang said:
The only way that it can is via an amendment. There is nothing in the Constitution which grants it the authority to dictate whether a person may have an abortion or not with normal federal laws.

In anycase lets get back to the privacy issue. Do you have a right to know whether a person 500 miles away is pregnant? How about a block away? Your neighbor? Or does the woman have the right to keep it private?
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In a sense you are partly right. The federal government cannot get involved with intra-state crime. However, inter-state crimes are another matter. If the abortion clinics in question are operated on an inter-state basis or someone travels across state lines it can then be subject to federal jurisdiction.
 
Centrist77 said:
Actually I have many times, not my fault you choose to ignore the reality and facts LMAO
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What facts, besides the fact that you keep posting opinions in a tone that misleads the unwary to thinking they are facts? All you have done is post "it is because it is" in as many ways as humanly possible without actually citing anything other than your opinion.
 
jamesrage said:
Anyone trying to kill their child as a means of birth control should be be shown disgust.



Seeing how you want it to be legal for a mother to kill her unborn child as a means of birth control its just as good as wishing for the death of an unborn baby. It would be like saying I don't think rape should be illegally but I am not advocating that anyone should rape anyone.



You think its moral that it be legal for a mother to kill her unborn child. That is seriously ****ed up. Its like saying it should be legal to rape, molest kids or any other horrible despicable thing.



Its no different than a criminal dying while in the commission of a crime.



If they try to kill their own child as a means of birth control then I could care less if they die while getting a back alley abortion.



What post did I say that?




I would rather the state pay for children to raised than for children to be killed. IN regard to raising children the state fills that role in the event parents,private organizations or charities can not do that.



Pro-abortion side belief- women should be legally allowed to kill their own unborn child as a means of birth control
Anti-abortion side belief- women should not be legally allowed to kill their own unborn child as a means of birth control.

The anti-abortion side looks unselfish.





I am okay with seeing the deaths of people trying to kill their own children or attempting to kill their own children. Its no different than a burglar getting killed while trying rob a home, a rapist getting killed while raping or trying to rape someone, a bank robber getting killed while trying to rob a bank, a car jacker getting killed while trying to steal a car or any other scumbag getting killed while doing something despicable.



The only time it should be allowed( performed in a actual hospital) is if multiple doctors have confirm that vaginal birth or c-section past a 40% viability rate of the unborn child will result in the loss of the mother's life.
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The anti abortion side is selfish because NOBODY suffers during an abortion except you. When an early term abortion is preformed the embryo doesn't feel pain... physical, mental, or otherwise. But you support laws and write posts on DP stating how you would like to see females die... minors, rape survivors, abuse survivors, etc., because they do something you don't agree with.

They will possibly suffer death, disfigurement, and have suffered rape and abuse, and once their baby is born (if it doesn't die too) you're willing to toss it in a overcrowded and poorly run fostercare system and allow it to grow a warden of the state.... as if that's an ideal life.

I'd say all that suffering far outweighs your suffering and the imagined suffering of the unborn babies you wish to save... and that's why you are selfish.
 
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Travelsonic said:
What facts, besides the fact that you keep posting opinions in a tone that misleads the unwary to thinking they are facts? All you have done is post "it is because it is" in as many ways as humanly possible without actually citing anything other than your opinion.
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LMAO why don't you quote my whole post? thats what I thought!

TRANSLATION: you can not tell me the amendment that the TSA policies violate because there isnt one :) its ok we all know.
 
SheWolf said:
The anti abortion side is selfish because NOBODY suffers during an abortion except you. .
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The child suffers by being deprave of his or her life.



When an early term abortion is preformed the embryo doesn't feel pain
... physical, mental, or otherwise.
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So you are against abortion past the end of the 8th week? That is when the embyonic stage of the baby's life ends and his fetal stage begins.

But you support laws and write posts on DP stating how you would like to see females die... minors, rape survivors, abuse survivors, etc., because they do something you don't agree with.
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In a sane society abortion used as birth control should be seen as no different than murder. A woman who attempts to have her child killed deserves any horrible thing that can happen as a result of her trying to have her child killed.


They will possibly suffer death, disfigurement,
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If they go to kill their own child that is what they deserve.

and have suffered rape and abuse,
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If they get rapped or abused then they should report it to the authorities.

and once their baby is born (if it doesn't die too) you're willing to toss it in a overcrowded and poorly run fostercare system and allow it to grow a warden of the state.... as if that's an ideal life.
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Yeah I am so sure that everyone who grew up in foster care just wish that they were never born instead of being given the chance at life.Or that everyone in foster care is just suffering. We live in one of the wealthiest countries in the world, our poor would be considered wealthy to the poor people in countries and even our prison inmates live better than the poor in other countries. This picture you are trying to paint of a child suffering in foster care or as a ward of the state is completely idiotic.
 
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