View Poll Results: Is government the problem?

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  • Yes

    26 59.09%
  • No

    17 38.64%
  • Don't Know

    1 2.27%
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Thread: Agree or disagree: Government is the problem

  1. #11
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    Re: Agree or disagree: Government is the problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    This simplistic idea that government is the problem, secures Ronald Reagan his place among the worst presidents this country has ever suffered.

    I invite gun advocates who constantly are reminding us that we should blame the owner of the hand that held the gun and not the gun for the crimes committed with the gun. The American people own the hand that holds the government, it is their will what government does. Blaming government for the intents or the lapses of the American people is like blaming the gun for the sins of the gun wielder.

    With Reagan's simple-minded anti-government advocacy comes alienation with reality whose heroes today are named Sarah Palin and Michele Bachmann.
    we laugh at the far left's howling about Reagan

    and i am amused about your gun analogy given you are one of the biggest gun haters on thisboard.

    and yes government is at best a neccessary evil that both parties-especially the dems-has expanded way way beyond the boundaries created by the founders.



  2. #12
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    Re: Agree or disagree: Government is the problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    This simplistic idea that government is the problem, secures Ronald Reagan his place among the worst presidents this country has ever suffered.

    I invite gun advocates who constantly are reminding us that we should blame the owner of the hand that held the gun and not the gun for the crimes committed with the gun. The American people own the hand that holds the government, it is their will what government does. Blaming government for the intents or the lapses of the American people is like blaming the gun for the sins of the gun wielder.

    With Reagan's simple-minded anti-government advocacy comes alienation with reality whose heroes today are named Sarah Palin and Michele Bachmann.
    Thing is, many of the decisions governments make are not necessarily the will of the people. The people might have given a mandate to the government to take over and pursue a particular agenda, but many of the decisions made are not made by informing the people, but are rather entirely circumstantial - and the approach may or may not appeal to us although it was deemed appropriate by the government at the time.

    Take interest rates as an example. The people may demand low interest rates but the government believes it is in the interest of the state to raise it, or austerity measures where cuts are made in areas that may be unpopular with the people.

    You cannot act as though the government and the people are but one....because they are not. The will of the people may or may not effect the outcome of the decision making process. Part of it depends on what the people demand, but a lot of it depends on what the government believes is right. That can make the government dangerous. And in the case of an economic crises, the government has become the problem for not wielding the necessary powers to avert a crises like regulating banks and the sub prime sector.

    It is, at the end of the day, the job of the government to secure national interests. Just because your average American never stood up and shouted "REGULATE BANKS!" or "CAP BONUSES" doesn't mean the people lapsed and the government is not to blame.
    Last edited by kaya'08; 02-05-11 at 08:17 PM.
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  3. #13
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    Re: Agree or disagree: Government is the problem

    Fair enough; the people's leadership of the government is indirect and reactionary in many cases.

    Was it the will of the people that interest rates would be controlled substantially by the unelected Federal Reserve board? Probably not.

    What is true is that the American people elected the leaders who made legislative decisions based on their best judgment. And, the American people elected the leaders who appointed people to implement their policies.

    The American system says if government is doing something you don't like, change the government through our democratic process.

    Reagan, on the other hand, acted if the government was some alien beast imposing its will on them; it was the enemy like Mothra. Government was the problem by his lights throughout even his tenure.


    Roosevelt, another Republican icon, had it right. Government is what we make of it.
    “Real environmentalists live in cities, and they visit what's left of the wilderness as gently and respectfully as possible.” — Donna Moulton, letter to the editor, Tucson Weekly, published on August 23, 2001

  4. #14
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    Re: Agree or disagree: Government is the problem

    Ummm... I do not think that TR was a Republican icon. Roosevelt was a progressive. I agree with his statement, but I doubt that Republicans or conservatives would claim TR as one of their own. They might respect him, but wouldn't claim him.
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    Re: Agree or disagree: Government is the problem

    Moderator's Warning:
    Agree or disagree: Government is the problemOh... and the personal attacks stop now. Or there will be consequences.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #16
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    Re: Agree or disagree: Government is the problem

    Such statements are oversimplified crap that represent the greatest problem in modern American politics. You might as well say" is water is the problem?". A drowning man and a man dying of thirst will have very different opinions on the subject, and neither of them will be wrong. Government can be the problem, the solution or completely irrelevant depending on specific circumstances. You should decide whether government should be involved after you analyze the situation, not before. Even more importantly, you have to decide whether the specific solution is a good idea or not. In short, don't be a lazy fool, get off you ass and actually think about a problem before deciding how to deal with it.

  7. #17
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    Re: Agree or disagree: Government is the problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    Fair enough; the people's leadership of the government is indirect and reactionary in many cases.

    Was it the will of the people that interest rates would be controlled substantially by the unelected Federal Reserve board? Probably not.

    What is true is that the American people elected the leaders who made legislative decisions based on their best judgment. And, the American people elected the leaders who appointed people to implement their policies.

    The American system says if government is doing something you don't like, change the government through our democratic process.

    Reagan, on the other hand, acted if the government was some alien beast imposing its will on them; it was the enemy like Mothra. Government was the problem by his lights throughout even his tenure.


    Roosevelt, another Republican icon, had it right. Government is what we make of it.
    You acknowledge that the government and the people are not one, and then you say you agree with TR and say they are. Could you please clarify?

    Fair enough; the people's leadership of the government is indirect and reactionary in many cases.
    I mean i completely agree with this.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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  8. #18
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    Re: Agree or disagree: Government is the problem

    My point is that Reagan promoted an alienation between the people and their government which is with us still in the form of a widespread, amorphous voter frustration in its most modest form (e.g., the Tea Party) to violent assaults upon government agents and institutions in its most virulent form (e.g., Andrew Joseph Stack III).

    American government is just a tool wielded by the representatives elected by the American people. As TR told us, “government is us” in the sense that it is a product of our collective will as embodied by those elected leaders. One can argue about government's size and shape, its reach and role but this debate is within the American family, not, as some among us would appear to have us believe, a war upon an otherworldly beast holed up in the nation's capital.
    Last edited by Chappy; 02-06-11 at 02:45 PM.
    “Real environmentalists live in cities, and they visit what's left of the wilderness as gently and respectfully as possible.” — Donna Moulton, letter to the editor, Tucson Weekly, published on August 23, 2001

  9. #19
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    Re: Agree or disagree: Government is the problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Gein View Post
    A FriscoLib slams The Gipper, not using reason, not using facts(facts defeat partisan stupidity).

    Thanks for the laffs, and for solidifying why I truly hate most liberals.
    Well, I hate conservatives, and I see a serious problem.
    hate
    The progressives have their place as "social improvers"
    The conservatives have their place as a brake on this progression..
    Yes, the brake is necessary(it slows down the progression, but must not stop it...
    As to being "slammed".....that is the price one pays for having an opinion........
    My opinion - our nation is backward, years behind the Canadians and Europeans, particularly in social matters.

  10. #20
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    Re: Agree or disagree: Government is the problem

    Reagan's statement seems to be populist pandering distilled down to it's most pure form. Either that or Reagan was cleverly insulting millions of people in which case I might actually have to start liking him.

    PEOPLE elect the government. By saying "government is the problem", he can make people feel good about themselves by giving them an out to say "Yeah! It's not MY fault!" On top of that, it's an overly-simplistic idea to just blame government every time something bad happens.

    What also kills me is Reagan IS government! He's part of that government that is supposed to be a problem!
    I'm Done

    See my last post

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